love your enemies

[massdak]

first i want to state that i am of the Calvinist camp, but one point for the arminian side is this verse that i dont really see them use for the benefit of their already weak case mathew 5-43. this is a confusing point that i would have to ask, why would God ask us to love enemies as well as neighbors? would this include those who obviously maynot be of the elect?
does God love all of His enemies?


Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

 

[Helen]

HI massdak,

I think the primary point here is not a Calvinism/non-Calvinism point, but rather, "what does it mean to love someone?"

To love is to commit to care for, over and above discomfort to oneself. Hebrews 6:7-8 gives us a picture, too -- rain falls on all the land. But what does the land produce?

Again, Christ showed compassion to all who came to Him asking for healing or help. We have no idea if all of these particular people were saved eventually. We do know that out of ten lepers cleansed, only one returned to thank Him. This may give us a clue...

As Christ says, if we do good only to those who do good to us, we are the same as everyone. Who is going to notice the difference Christ has made in our lives? What kind of a witness, really, is that?

But if we make a concerted effort to show care and concern, above our point of discomfort, to EVERYone we possibly can, friend or foe, then this is very different from the world, and we are truly presenting a witness to the character of Christ within us.

Does that make sense? I do think it is an issue which is not doctrinal in the sense of supporting one doctrine against another, but is something apart from that, standing simply as an order from our Lord to all who claim His name.

 

[KenH]

Amen, Helen.

Ken

 

[Headcoveredlady]

Massdak,
I am sorry I have nothing to add to the calvinistic/arminiam debate. However, I have found in my experience that praying for my enemies is a wonderful way to love them. Sometimes we get to put love into action that they can specifically see as well by doing good things for them. Have you found that as well in your experience with loving your enemies?

HCL

 

[Johnv]

Many mistakenly assume that loving someone is the same as liking someone.

 

[Abiyah]

I believe that there are many kinds of love, and
these have degrees and intensities. For exam-
ple, I love my husband differently from the way
I love my children. I love my neighbors, my
mother, and my siblings each in entirely differ-
ent ways than these. I love the stranger in the
street, whose name I do not know, even dirrer-
ently than all these.

I also believe that when we love our neighbor,
this speaks volumres about ourselves but
should really have nothing to do with the
demeanor or anything else about that neighbor.
It is just something we do.

I think an important question might be this: How
do our neighbors know we love them?

 

[BobRyan]

Actually - I agree with the opening post. God sets the standard by "So Loving the World".

While we were dead in sin - enslaved to sin -- the Same God who "is not willing for Any to perish but for ALL to come to repentance" - died for us.

God who loves - all mankind and has no pleasure in the death of "anyone" Ezek 18 end of chapter -- can be expected (using the Arminian basics to predict this) to deal with the loss of a loved one in the future as follows .

When you go to God with your heart broken over the loss of your loved one - and ask "My Great God and Savior - Couldn't you have don Something to spare my precious daughter"??

God may well say --

Why YES my child I loved them with an infinite love as Their tender Heavenly Father JUST as I loved you. I drew them to my heart of infinite love JUST as I drew you. I sent WAVE after WAVE of invitation, heart wrenching plea after plea - BUT In all this I did not force myself on them - JUST as I did not force myself on YOU.

THough I bled and DIED for them - and YES I could have FORCE both YOU and your child - but instead I Sovereignly Chose to Give you BOTH the ABILITY to see the light, to CHOOSE life or to CHOOSE your own selfish will.

And when you CHOSE against me - I CAME back with even stronger ties of love and compassion - ENABLING your choice of LIFE JUST as I did with your precious child.

And in the end - you ACCEPTED and your precious child - OUR precious child - MY precious child chose "NO".

My heart of infinte love is broken over that - but I also Sovereignly CHOOSE to enable my children to CHOOSE.

Of course the Calvinist may say of the Arminian God that we see pictured here "OH how TERRIBLE! How AWFUL" as some have said of the picture that Calvinism paints of God. -- But I know that "not many" will do so - even among Calvinists because the comparison is obvious - blatant and clear.
[/b]

There will be no possibility of discovering that God only hated your child from the start, or that God never took the time to love them.

In Christ,

Bob

[ December 03, 2002, 12:36 AM: Message edited by: BobRyan ]