Lowell Davey boots John MacArthur

[AustinC]

Does AustinC really believe Jesus being the means of salvation means He has made everyone perfect? The assertion is obviously just a smoke screen to deflect from actual discussion.

Van stated:
Christ became the propitiation or means of salvation for the whole world, all mankind.

The conclusion from Vans statement is Van believes in universalism.

Does God not credit our faith (or not) as righteousness? Of course He does, see Romans 4:4-5 and Romans 4:23-24.

God gives his children faith (no others have faith). Because God's children are given faith, God counts his children as righteous.

How did Timothy know scripture from infancy if he had no spiritual ability?

You misunderstanding of Timothy is actually funny because it's so preposterous.
Paul is saying that Timothy was raised to know scripture. Every Jewish household was raised to know scripture.
Van, even an atheist can know scripture.

Again and again, Calvinism is shown to be bogus.

Off point. Irrelevant

Did anyone say God did not choose to redeem humans? Nope so more deflection and no discussion. Sad

Calvinists say God chose to Redeem whom God wills. Do you disagree?

Did anyone say God does not choose individuals for salvation?

Calvinists say God chose individuals to be adopted/saved. Do you disagree?

Nope - so more deflection, more strawman, more smoke screen.

You agree with Calvinist's?

Does scripture say God ordains "all things?" No reference was provided.

Do you believe God does not ordain all things? Are there events that are out of God's control?

On the one hand Calvinists say God ordains whatsoever comes to pass, and then says God does not ordain sin. Cognitive dissonance.

Ordain and cause are not the same.
God ordained that Adam would rebel. God did not cause Adam to rebel.
You seem to struggle with understanding what ordain means.

Here again are the biblical doctrines Calvinism denies:
Christ became the propitiation or means of salvation for the whole world, all mankind.

Correct, this is denied because you assertion is universalism.

God chooses individuals for salvation through or on the basis of crediting their faith as righteousness.

God chose them before they had faith (Ephesians 1). God gives faith to his children and views his children as righteous because he has given them faith.

The Fall resulting in mankind having limited spiritual ability, able to understand and respond to spiritual milk but not spiritual solid food (meat).

The fall resulted in complete inability to have the capacity to save one's self.

God causes or allows all that comes to pass.

Your failure to differentiate between ordination and cause is obvious to every reader

 

[Van]

Van's rebuttal in red.

Van stated:
Christ became the propitiation or means of salvation for the whole world, all mankind.

The conclusion from Vans statement is Van believes in universalism.
Absurd false charge. Deflection rather than discussion.

God gives his children faith (no others have faith). Because God's children are given faith, God counts his children as righteous.
God credits our faith as righteousness, Romans 4:4-5, Romans 4:23-24.

You misunderstanding of Timothy is actually funny because it's so preposterous.
Paul is saying that Timothy was raised to know scripture. Every Jewish household was raised to know scripture.
Van, even an atheist can know scripture.
This assertion denies the lost suffer from "total spiritual inability" because to know scripture is to know some spiritual things.

Calvinists say God chose to Redeem whom God wills. Do you disagree?
Off point, irrelevant. Here is what I actually said: God chooses individuals for salvation through or on the basis of crediting their faith as righteousness.

Calvinists say God chose individuals to be adopted/saved. Do you disagree?
Of course God chose individuals for salvation on the basis of crediting their faith as righteousness and predestined thos ;chosen to be adopted at Christ's second coming.

Did anyone say God does not choose individuals for salvation? Nope - so more deflection, more strawman, more smoke screen. You agree with Calvinist's? I agree with scripture, 2 Thessalonians 2:13

Do you believe God does not ordain all things? Are there events that are out of God's control?
God causes or allows all that comes to pass.

You seem to struggle with understanding what ordain means.
No, "ordain" means "predestine" see any dictionary. Calvinists like to re

Correct, this is denied because you assertion is universalism.
A repeat of the absurd claim that Christ becoming the means of salvation means Christ saved everyone. Utter nonsense

God chose them before they had faith (Ephesians 1). God gives faith to his children and views his children as righteous because he has given them faith. When God chose His Redeemer, He also chose corporately all those His Redeemer would redeem, thus He chose us in Him.

The fall resulted in complete inability to have the capacity to save one's self. No one said anyone has the capacity to save themselves. Thus more deflection, and no discussion of the actual issue.

Your failure to differentiate between ordination and cause is obvious to every reader.
God causes or allows whatsoever comes to pass. Ordain means predestine.

: destine, foreordain It is futile to try to avoid what destiny has ordained.

 

[AustinC]

Van stated:
Christ became the propitiation or means of salvation for the whole world, all mankind.

The conclusion from Vans statement is Van believes in universalism.
Absurd false charge. Deflection rather than discussion.

God gives his children faith (no others have faith). Because God's children are given faith, God counts his children as righteous.
God credits our faith as righteousness, Romans 4:4-5, Romans 4:23-24.

You misunderstanding of Timothy is actually funny because it's so preposterous.
Paul is saying that Timothy was raised to know scripture. Every Jewish household was raised to know scripture.
Van, even an atheist can know scripture.
This assertion denies the lost suffer from "total spiritual inability" because to know scripture is to know some spiritual things.

Calvinists say God chose to Redeem whom God wills. Do you disagree?
Off point, irrelevant. Here is what I actually said: God chooses individuals for salvation through or on the basis of crediting their faith as righteousness.

Calvinists say God chose individuals to be adopted/saved. Do you disagree?
Of course God chose individuals for salvation on the basis of crediting their faith as righteousness and predestined thos ;chosen to be adopted at Christ's second coming.

Did anyone say God does not choose individuals for salvation? Nope - so more deflection, more strawman, more smoke screen. You agree with Calvinist's? I agree with scripture, 2 Thessalonians 2:13

Do you believe God does not ordain all things? Are there events that are out of God's control?
God causes or allows all that comes to pass.

You seem to struggle with understanding what ordain means.
No, "ordain" means "predestine" see any dictionary. Calvinists like to re

Correct, this is denied because you assertion is universalism.
A repeat of the absurd claim that Christ becoming the means of salvation means Christ saved everyone. Utter nonsense

God chose them before they had faith (Ephesians 1). God gives faith to his children and views his children as righteous because he has given them faith. When God chose His Redeemer, He also chose corporately all those His Redeemer would redeem, thus He chose us in Him.

The fall resulted in complete inability to have the capacity to save one's self. No one said anyone has the capacity to save themselves. Thus more deflection, and no discussion of the actual issue.

Your failure to differentiate between ordination and cause is obvious to every reader.
God causes or allows whatsoever comes to pass. Ordain means predestine.

I have explained why I think you are wrong. You are welcome to remain in the wrong.

 

[Van]

I have explained why I think you are wrong. You are welcome to remain in the wrong.

LOL, the old "I addressed this in the unreferenced past and obliterated your view" defense.

1) AustinC claimed falsely my view resulted in Universalism.
2) AustinC denied God credits our faith as righteousness or not.
3) AustinC claimed we can know scripture with total spiritual inability.
4) AustinC claimed Jesus becoming the means of salvation means Jesus saved everyone.

 

[AustinC]

LOL, the old "I addressed this in the unreferenced past and obliterated your view" defense.

1) AustinC claimed falsely my view resulted in Universalism.
2) AustinC denied God credits our faith as righteousness or not.
3) AustinC claimed we can know scripture with total spiritual inability.
4) AustinC claimed Jesus becoming the means of salvation means Jesus saved everyone.

 

[George Antonios]

In December 1989, the bbnradio.org terminated MacArthur's Grace to You program. In explaining that step, BBN president Lowell Davey referred to MacArthur's teachings on the blood of Christ and "Lordship salvation." Davey called these teachings "confusing". In a letter dated January 15, 1990, Davey cited a "drift by Dr. MacArthur to a theological position that we could not adhere to" and said that MacArthur's sermon series on the theology of election "convinced us that the direction of 'Grace to You' was toward Hyper-Calvinism." MacArthur preaches salvation by election of God's sovereignty.

I am a supporter of the bbnradio.org and agreed with the move. Though I am not Calvinist I do not consider all of John MacArthur's teachings bad.

Perfectly agreed.

 

[Salty]

I used to work full time for a Christian Radio Station.
We had a rather simple policy.

YOU PAY - YOU PLAY

 

[37818]

2) God chose his adopted children from before the foundation of the world, having predestined them unto salvation.

You do realize that the adoption is yet future, Romans 8:23. 1 John 3:2. So our salvation, Ephesians 2:8-9, is prior to it.

 

[Particular]

You do realize that the adoption is yet future, Romans 8:23. 1 John 3:2. So our salvation, Ephesians 2:8-9, is prior to it.

I do realize you are mistaken.
God chose me, predestined me and adopted me before the foundation of the world.

Ephesians 1:3-12 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory.

Nothing future tense about it.

Ephesians 2:4-9 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Nothing future tense about it.

You are mistaken.

 

[HankD]

there is no passage of time with God. He is eternal.

the time continuum is His creation.

 

[37818]

. . . adopted me . . .

<sarcasm>Nice to have your immortal body. Romans 8:23.</sarcasm>

 

[Particular]

<sarcasm>Nice to have your immortal body. Romans 8:23.</sarcasm>

The adoption has already happened. The time of living on the family property has not yet happened. Read the full passage in Romans 8 so you see this truth.

Romans 8:18-25 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.

Notice the context and understand that the adoption is already secured, the salvation is already secured, but the redemption of our earthly bodies is yet in the future.

 

[37818]

The adoption has already happened.

So you are claimng Romans 8:23 has already happened.

 

[37818]

there is no passage of time with God. He is eternal.

the time continuum is His creation.

Psalms 90:2, ". . . from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God. . . ." God Himself is the uncaused reality without beginning, without end.

God Himself is the fundamental self evident truth by which all other self evident truths can be self evident.

 

[HankD]

Psalms 90:2, ". . . from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God. . . ." God Himself is the uncaused reality without beginning, without end.

God Himself is the fundamental self evident truth by which all other self evident truths can be self evident.

God created time to keep everything from happening at once.

 

[37818]

God created time to keep everything from happening at once.

God is uncaused eternity without beginning and without end. God created time for all created things.