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LSB
- Thread starter Reynolds
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Origin - Legacy Standard Bible | Your Translation for a Lifetime
Based on what I see right now I like it.
Based on what I see right now I like it.
I’ve been using it for a while now.
I’m not convinced that it’s a top-notch version.
I’ve found that in the OT it is a very conservative version, to the point where the input from the Dead Sea Scrolls is minimized; helpful notes are absent.
Rob
This past weekend, I bought a reference edition LSB. I've enjoyed it thus far.
You mentioned that helpful notes are absent--are you referring to text only editions, or do you mean the notes in the reference edition are inadequate? One complaint I have about the LSB is that I think they should include translation footnotes with the basic text editions. I think translation notes are an integral part of the text.
I initially wasn't sure how I felt about the use of Yahweh vs. LORD, but the translation decision has grown on me. Translating doulos as "slave" consistently in the New Testament--I don't feel strongly about it. I generally agree with John MacArthur's emphasis on our position as "slaves" to God, though, and I'm not opposed to the translation decision. I suppose my perspective is something like, "That's not a bad way to do it."
I'm doing my daily readings in the LSB as a test drive to see if I want to make it my main translation. Years ago, I used the NASB95 as my main translation, so it's not a stretch for me. My church uses the ESV, though, so I'm currently in an informal ESV vs. LSB evaluation.
I use a digital version of the LSB.
I actually like the use of God’s name in the text.
The use of “slave”, not so much.
But it’s the translation notes that is a make or break for me.
And they certainly are lacking.
Rob
PS… I’m still waiting for a blue hardback Reference Bible in black print with standard thickness paper to match the previous editions of the NASB
Until then, it’s digital for me.
Is there a particular type of translation note that you're wishing you could find? I've not noticed anything problematic, but I also haven't looked deeply into it.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
This fellow, Pastor Brent, at Evangelical Textual Criticism: Another Revision of the NASB, has a disquietude, or considerable concern, regarding the Codex Sinaiaticus and Codex Vaticanus, and their use in any translation.
Since, I first heard of them in the early 80s, I have never seen or heard anything good to say about them.
So, I am having Pastor Brent as my spokesman, today;
"The NASB already has 10 editions. With MacArthur's version and then the 2020 from Lockman, there will be 12. The KJV has 3 editions, and the revisions were only spelling, punctuation and numbers. The KJV is not merely the most accurate (English) translation, but it is the most trustworthy! I have studied NT textual criticism, apologetics and NT Greek for more than 30 years. I can tell you from experience that we do not need another English translation!
"The Byzantine text is the most trustworthy because it is the most consistent.
I am not KJV only, but I am KJV first!
"The greatest confusion/division the church has ever known came in 1881 with Westcott and Hort's Greek translation from the two most corrupt translations in antiquity.
"It is not a matter of antiquity for me, but that Sinaiaticus came from a Monastery that supports and is protected by Islam. If you wish to trust a Bible that comes from such a source, that is your choice. I will stick with the tried, trusted and true KJV.
"Not only is the Masoretic text of the OT proven by archeology with the Qumran scrolls, but the Byzantine family of Greek manuscripts has over 5,800 copies to compare one with another.
"The Alexandrian family has 9 manuscripts,but they rely most heavily upon Vat/Sin. MacArthur's claim to be most literal is weak because it's base is literally full of holes. Sinaiaticus itself is missing whole books, while boasting pseudapigripha.
(Spelling note: pseudepigrapha).
"The church needs to return to its roots. Pick up a KJV Bible and know for certain that you are reading the unchanging, most consistent and most literal English translation we possess. Let the confusion come to an end. May the name of Jesus be magnified. 2 Tim.4:1-4
"In Jesus love,
Pastor Brett"
1 "I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 "Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3 "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 "And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."
Since, I first heard of them in the early 80s, I have never seen or heard anything good to say about them.
So, I am having Pastor Brent as my spokesman, today;
"The NASB already has 10 editions. With MacArthur's version and then the 2020 from Lockman, there will be 12. The KJV has 3 editions, and the revisions were only spelling, punctuation and numbers. The KJV is not merely the most accurate (English) translation, but it is the most trustworthy! I have studied NT textual criticism, apologetics and NT Greek for more than 30 years. I can tell you from experience that we do not need another English translation!
"The Byzantine text is the most trustworthy because it is the most consistent.
I am not KJV only, but I am KJV first!
"The greatest confusion/division the church has ever known came in 1881 with Westcott and Hort's Greek translation from the two most corrupt translations in antiquity.
"It is not a matter of antiquity for me, but that Sinaiaticus came from a Monastery that supports and is protected by Islam. If you wish to trust a Bible that comes from such a source, that is your choice. I will stick with the tried, trusted and true KJV.
"Not only is the Masoretic text of the OT proven by archeology with the Qumran scrolls, but the Byzantine family of Greek manuscripts has over 5,800 copies to compare one with another.
"The Alexandrian family has 9 manuscripts,but they rely most heavily upon Vat/Sin. MacArthur's claim to be most literal is weak because it's base is literally full of holes. Sinaiaticus itself is missing whole books, while boasting pseudapigripha.
(Spelling note: pseudepigrapha).
"The church needs to return to its roots. Pick up a KJV Bible and know for certain that you are reading the unchanging, most consistent and most literal English translation we possess. Let the confusion come to an end. May the name of Jesus be magnified. 2 Tim.4:1-4
"In Jesus love,
Pastor Brett"
1 "I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 "Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3 "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 "And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."
So, other than the KJV only crowd, what do the rest of you think about LSB?
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
Many did. One defaulted to saying he sounded like a KJVO, so why was he being dishonest. Isn't that just as cute as thing to say as any?
My post was about the LSB, and since you asked, Alan wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pool.
Dr. Bob advises 2 Timothy 2 in his rules for this forum.
I see it saying, "
24 "And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25 "In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 "And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will."
That said, the Occult leaning versions are not my thing.
Would that be Gentile enough?
Where do I get that?
How many dozen scriptures do you want me to post?
from: The Legacy Standard Bible Expose
"I am going to show the absolute agreement the LSB with the Roman Catholic and Jehovah’s Witnesses Bible. Then you tell me how accurate the LSB is and then attempt to prove it! Brackets around a verse means that they question whether the verse is found in the originals or not, it basically means the same thing as if they omit it.
"KJV - King James Version
"LSB – Legacy Standard Bible
"NAB - New American Bible (Roman Catholic Church)
"NWT - New World Translation (Jehovah's Witnesses)
"The King James Version will be first and the omitted or changed part of the verse will be underlined to indicate the corruption in the LSB. You will also see the LSB's absolute agreement with the NAB and the NWT. Personally, I would be very suspicious of a translation that has so much in common with the Roman Catholic Church and the Jehovah's Witnesses."
Matthew 27:35
KJV: And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.
LSB: And when they had crucified Him, they divided up His garments among themselves by casting lots.
NWT: When they had impaled him they distributed his outer garments by casting lots.
NAB: When they had crucified him, they divided his clothes among them casting lots.
Mark 6:11
KJV: And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
LSB: And any place that does not receive you or listen to you, as you go out from there, shake the dust off the soles of your feet for a testimony against them.”
NWT: And wherever a place will not receive you nor hear you, on going out from there shake off the dirt that is beneath your feet for a witness to them"
NAB: If any place will not receive you or hear you, shake its dust from your feet in testimony against them as you leave.
Luke 4:4
KJV: And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
LSB: And Jesus answered him, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live on bread alone.’”
NWT: But Jesus replied to him: "It is written, 'Man must not live by bread alone.'"
NAB: Jesus answered him, "Scripture has it, 'Not on bread alone shall man live.'"
John 3:15
KJV: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
LSB: so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.
NWT: that everyone believing in him may have everlasting life.
NAB: that all who believe may have eternal life in him.
John 6:47
KJV: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
LSB: Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.
NWT: Most truly I say to YOU, He that believes has everlasting life.
NAB: Let me firmly assure you, he who believes has eternal life.
Acts 2:30
KJV: Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
LSB: And so, because he was a prophet and knew that God had sworn to him with an oath to set one of the fruit of his body on his throne,
NWT: Therefore, because he was a prophet and knew that God had sworn to him with an oath that he would seat one from the fruitage of his loins upon his throne.
NAB: He was a prophet and knew that God had sworn to him that one of his descendants would sit upon his throne.
Romans 1:16
KJV: 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
LSB: For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
NWT: For I am not ashamed of the good news; it is, in fact, God's power for salvation to everyone having faith, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
NAB: I am not ashamed of the gospel. It is the power of God leading everyone who believes in it to salvation, the Jew first, then the Greek.
Romans 8:1
KJV: There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
LSB: Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
NWT: Therefore those in union with Christ Jesus have no condemnation.
NAB: There is no condemnation now for those who are in Christ Jesus
Romans 11:6
KJV: And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
LSB: But if it is by grace, it is no longer of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.
NWT: Now if it is by undeserved kindness, it is no longer due to works; otherwise, the undeserved kindness no longer proves to be undeserved kindness.
NAB: But if the choice is by grace, it is not because of their works-otherwise grace would not be grace."
On and on and on. I no like.
So sorry to make this any kind of KJV vs so and so debate, however it is the gold standard. My take on the LSB is to use my saying regarding any of the other modern bibles and that is, "on any given verse, you still have to reference it in the KJV, to see what God said."
You are misinformed concerning editions of the KJV. There have been a lot more than three editions or revisions of the KJV. In my examination of over 500 editions of the KJV, there would be well over 100 editions of the KJV that would have some variation or difference with other editions. There have been at least ten to twelve revisions of the KJV that made a good number of changes or revisions.
All the revisions were not only spelling and punctuation. Over 160 whole words were added in post-1611 editions that were not found in the 1611 edition. Over 45 whole words found in the 1611 edition are omitted in the post-1900 KJV edition in the Scofield Reference Bible if the 21 words omitted at Exodus 14:10 are included in the count. Over 65 times the number [singular/plural] of nouns or pronouns is changed from what it was in the 1611 edition. At least twenty or more times the tense of a verb is changed. Sixty, seventy, or even many more would belong to the category of changing a word. “Than” is now considered a different word than “then” so that these 483 changes could be counted in the substantial category of “changing a word.” When these 483 changes are added to the sixty to seventy, the total for the category of changing a word would be over 540.
Considering your incorrect information concerning the KJV, why should your claims concerning the LSB be blindly accepted?
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
The testimony of the Pastor Brent is that he is not KJVO and my testimony is that I am not KJVO. Every tenant of KJVO is heretical, if you knew what they believed. I don't.
Dr. Bob still pigeonholes any one who knows the KJV is vastly superior in every aspect and labeled us disparagingly as being some variety of KJVO, which is an inappropriate vilification, and thoughtless blanket rejection, exactly as is the intent of your question.
Dr. Bob gives his cautions and says. "It is WRONG to lump a very slight leaning to the KJVO position (#1-2) with the mainstream KJVO (#3-4) or with the extreme KJVO (#5)."
Bible Versions & Translations
Definitions of KJV Only
KJVO #1 "I PREFER THE KJV"
"This group believes the KJV is the best single English translation available today. This is based on its history, usefulness, beauty, etc. It does NOT mean that there might not be a better English translation possible and that other present translations are "bad".
"These are only marginally KJVonly and should NOT be lumped in with discussion on other issues."
Since you clearly assert that you do not know what KJV-only advocates believe, how can you be certain that you are not one?
Do you not regard the KJV as being the word of God translated into English in a different sense than you would consider any other English Bible to be the word of God translated into English?
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
New thread, off tangent regarding:
What is the "King James Superiority" position vs the Ruckmanite KJVO position?
What is the "King James Superiority" position vs the Ruckmanite KJVO position?
This is the important question. At the risk of seeming rude, I do not care at all about what KJV-only (or even KJV-preferred to the point of being de facto KJVO) advocates think about the LSB. Of course they're going to oppose it.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
That is EXACTLY the same kind of Boeotia evidence of Depravity I've seen in six other posters and put them on 'ignore'.
Well, Mr. Seven, I don't mean to be rude, but thank you, just don't take it personally what God says, in this wonderful article. It's nothing personal. I haven't learned how to not hurt some people's little bitty feelings, yet.
Timothy: A Teachable Spirit
POSTED ON DECEMBER 5, 2022 BY JERRY SCHMOYER
TIMOTHY: A TEACHABLE SPIRIT
It’s been my privilege to mentor several men who were becoming pastors. They were a joy to train because they were very teachable. They were open and willing to learn. They didn’t mind correction and learned from it. If they would have thought they knew all they needed to know and that what they did was always right, I would not have been able to build anything into them. Their pride would have kept them from being open to learning and growing. How sad.
Timothy was a joy for Paul to train because he was open and willing to learn new things. A close bond developed between them, a father-son love and respect (2 Timothy 2:1-2). First and Second Timothy are full of Paul’s advice to Timothy. He corrected him where necessary, taught new things where needed and encouraged him in all he did. When you read these books, you can see how open Timothy must have been to learn and grow. If he wasn’t, he wouldn’t have been useful to Paul or God.
The Bible says that people who are unteachable are fools (Proverbs 26:12; 11:14). Unteachable people don’t realize they are this way, they just think they are always right (Proverbs 16:12). They see correction or suggestions as personal criticism and are offended (Proverbs 12:1). Their insecurity and fear of being rejected make them unable to consider they may be wrong. It is their pride that won’t allow them to think there may be a better or different way. People with this attitude may pretend to listen, but they have already rejected what is said. They stick with their way, even when it fails.
We all know people who feel they are always right and have to have everything their way. It is bad for them and those around them. It is terrible when God’s leaders are like this. God tries to reach them and help them mature, but they don’t take advice from others as coming from God. They aren’t open to new things God is trying to show them through others. Thus they even block themselves off from God.
If you honestly admit that sometimes you are not very teachable, then humble yourself before God. Pray and ask Him to forgive your pride. Yield to Him and accept His correction and teaching. Ask Him what you can learn from others who try to give you godly advice and suggestions.
Proverbs 26:12 Do you see a man [who is unteachable and] wise in his own eyes and full of self-conceit?
There is more hope for a fool than for him.
Proverbs 12:15 tells us, “The way of a fool is right in his own eyes, but he who heeds counsel is wise.”
Proverbs 11:14 Where there is no counsel, the people fall; But in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.
What is your first response when you are criticized?
How do you react when someone tries to show you a better way of doing something?
How do you react when you are wrong?
Would your wife or children say you are not open to correction and new suggestions? Would God?
It's not about being teachable. It's about knowing the answer before you ask the question. If someone is against modern versions, of course they will oppose the LSB.
I don't mind being put on ignore, if that's what you think is best.
Perhaps you should look in the mirror since you seem to be not very teachable when it comes to your imperfect interpretations and biased opinions. In your posts, you do not come across as humble and teachable.
