luke 18:16

[God's_Servant]

The koine greek disagrees with you, as does Middle English. The context of the English rendering in the KJV was indeed belonging. The meaning of the Middle ENglish has changed when the language evolced to Modern English.

The KJV/Bishop's rendering was contextually accurate in its day. It is no longer accurate today. When you say the context of belonging is wrong, then you're actually claiming the KJV authors erred.

A fine example of this is 1 Thessalonians 4:15.

KJV- For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
ESV- For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, and are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precedethose who have fallen asleep.
Geneva- For this say we vnto you by the worde of the Lorde, that we which live, and are remayning in the comming of the Lorde, shall not preunt them which sleepe.

Also, one large mistake you are making in your logic is to presume that the King James is right, and the NIV is wrong. (btw guys, the King James is technically Modern English, just in an earlier form)

 

[Johnv]

Excellent point.

In Middle/Early Modern English, "prevent/preuent" meant "to come before". In Modern English, it means "to keep from happenning", and "precede" means to come before.

"Precede" replaced "prevent" as more French came into English usage ("precedere" in Old French) in the late 1600's/early 1700's.

 

[Harold Garvey]

"Of such" Is the antecedent to the prequalification for the entering into God's kingdom, not showing posession but their position within it as to belong to God. The "Eclectic notes" do a good job of explaining this. I would check what Barnes has to say about "prevent" before preceding to believe something incongruent with Scripture

 

[Harold Garvey]

Oh, Greek scholar, define "toioutos"

 

[Robert Snow]

Sorry you can't understand what is clearly stated in the text.

He can understand it, if fact he does understand it. This is just a ploy to criticize the Word of God, the NIV. Earlier in this thread he commented that Bob should put away his "bent sword" referring to the NIV. He has already make up his mind, but he will post here acting like he wants these differences explained. He doesn't. These threads just give him a way to feel superior to us poor deluded believers who don't have a "final authority" like he does.

People like him aren't interested in the truth or getting out the Gospel. They are interested in winning people over to their shrinking sect of legalists. This is what they call spreading the Gospel.

I know, I was saved and eventually delivered from a church just like his!

 

[Harold Garvey]

Robert, I would do a litmus test for bitterness And then ask some one for an expanation before jumping to so many conclusions. Stick with topic, fyi The " bent sword" is Dr Bob's and is not the NIV. So you left a church, why throw rocks back at it if you aren't bitter? Why, you even threw a couple right here.

 

[rbell]

Robert, I would do a litmus test for bitterness And then ask some one for an expanation before jumping to so many conclusions. Stick with topic, fyi The " bent sword" is Dr Bob's and is not the NIV. So you left a church, why throw rocks back at it if you aren't bitter? Why, you even threw a couple right here.

Methinks you don't have the moral high ground to make any of the accusations you just did.

 

[Johnv]

Oh, Greek scholar, define "toioutos"

You don't even have a good grasp of King James English. I suggest you work on that first.

 

[Harold Garvey]

Methinks you don't have the moral high ground to make any of the accusations you just did.

I wonder, can you honestly add anything to the discussion about Luke 18:16?

I keep finding many here to be quite judgmental of my actions which they have many times interpreted things that were never intended.

 

[Harold Garvey]

You don't even have a good grasp of King James English. I suggest you work on that first.

I suppose when one cannot handle the faccts they have to attack the one who presents the facts to them.

Whatsthematta, can't define the Greek?

For those who wish to know, the definition is "such as this, of this kind or sort"

This is consistent with what I've said the Kingdom is made up of "this sort":smilewinkgrin:

 

[Johnv]

I suppose when one cannot handle the faccts they have to attack the one who presents the facts to them.

That's true. When you can't handle the facts, you do indeed attack the one presenting them. At least you're recognizing your actions here.

For those who wish to know, the definition is "such as this, of this kind or sort"

Nice try, but incorrect application. Definition alone does not deliver context. I don't expect you to understand that, so let me put it more concisely:

The phrase in koine Greek is:

gar toioutwn estin h basileia tou qeou (gar toioutos esti e basileia tou theos), which means, "for the kingdom of God belongs to such".

 

[Harold Garvey]

That's true. When you can't handle the facts, you do indeed attack the one presenting them. At least you're recognizing your actions here.

You're the pro.

Nice try, but incorrect application. Definition alone does not deliver context. I don't expect you to understand that, so let me put it more concisely:

The phrase in koine Greek is:

gar toioutwn estin h basileia tou qeou (gar toioutos esti e basileia tou theos), which means, "for the kingdom of God belongs to such".

Nope, such is belongs to this kind. The Kingdom of God is the Kingdom of God, it is not as you repeatedly reply in error that it is the kingdom of children.

Of course the rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft applies when the children think they can take the Kingdom by force.

We're allowed into the Kingdom of God through Christ as we come to Him as a little child would trusting his own father. We have not received the inheritance, but we are co-heirs with Christ.

You just keep proving over and over again the false doctrines associated with taking things and misapplying the Greek.

Toioutos means "this sort" makes up the Kingdom and belongs there. No change of ownership occurs.

You might be taken more seriously if you weren't always so condescending. I doubt you'll refrain from this behavior because it is my experience that every discussion you have this attribute of your character emerges.

 

[Johnv]

You just keep proving over and over again the false doctrines associated with taking things and misapplying the Greek.

You just confirmed when I said: "I don't expect you to understand that".

You might be taken more seriously if you weren't always so condescending.

Are you kidding? Have you looked in the mirror lately? Do you not realize how much of a fool you're making yourself sound?

 

[Mexdeaf]

Harold must not have any mirrors in his house. Or he broke all of them because he didn't like what he saw.

 

[Robert Snow]

Robert, I would do a litmus test for bitterness And then ask some one for an expanation before jumping to so many conclusions. Stick with topic, fyi The " bent sword" is Dr Bob's and is not the NIV. So you left a church, why throw rocks back at it if you aren't bitter? Why, you even threw a couple right here.

I threw no rocks. I just understand the KJVO movement. You specialize in acting superior and then play the victim when confronted.

 

[Harold Garvey]

I threw no rocks. I just understand the KJVO movement. You specialize in acting superior and then play the victim when confronted.

Seems you're quick to judge and in error.

I suppose you'll be putting a lump of coal in my stocking too.


The KJV has it plain for the casual reader. The NIV just used poor wording.

Maybe your experience with the KJVO movement is what has you so bitter that you cannot discuss the topic, huh? but instead you fling accusations and generalize everyone you are so quick to label into the catagory of people you obviously hate.

I accept other versions. I just know what I read and see where the complaints against modern versions are sustained.

It just goes against grammar to say it's the Kingdom of God and it belongs to little children while all the time the passage says it is God's Kingdom.

In the KJV we see Jesus stating the Kingdom is of such as these meaning this kind and sort are in the Kingdom and that's how they got in.

Stating the truth is not acting superior so get over your bitterness and envying.

It's so easy to detect bitterness, your posts in this topic alone indicate a serious problem. Get help, please.

 

[Harold Garvey]

Harold must not have any mirrors in his house. Or he broke all of them because he didn't like what he saw.

Yep, another "godly" person who can't deal with the topic but has to attack the one who shows them the facts.

Does the Kingdom of God belong to you? If so, then does it belong more to God? What locale are you presiding over as judge? Are you all amillinialists?:type:

I'm just happy to be one of His and allowed into His Kingdom which belongs to God.:1_grouphug:

 

[Johnv]

Seems you're quick to judge and in error.

Again, you really want to look in the mirror, because when you post stuff like this, you're presenting yourself to be quite foolish.

The KJV has it plain for the casual reader. The NIV just used poor wording.

The koine Greek disagrees with you, but as already noted, I don't expect you to have an understanding of context. This is the same thing you said about "meat offering", and you still refuse to acknowlege your error there.

Maybe your experience with the KJVO movement is what has you so bitter that you cannot discuss the topic, huh?

Not really. Having discussions with KJVOists usually isn't bitter, because the KJVO position and the claims they make are so easy to refute.

I accept other versions. I just know what I read and see where the complaints against modern versions are sustained.

Based on results, obviously not. You categorically refuse to acknowlege any complaints laid upon the KJV.

It just goes against grammar to say it's the Kingdom of God and it belongs to little children while all the time the passage says it is God's Kingdom.

If you want to argue koine Greek with me, I guarantee, you'll lose. Oh, wait, you already lost this argument, because the koine Greek here means, "for the kingdom of God belongs to such".

It's so easy to detect bitterness, your posts in this topic alone indicate a serious problem. Get help, please.

It's good that you're now talking to yourself. Perhaps it will help you get over bitterness in conversations such as these.

another "godly" person who can't deal with the topic

I love it when HG does something, and then gets mad when the same thign he did is done to him. It's incredibly amusing.

 

[Rippon]

I accept other versions.

That's an encouraging report.

 

[Trotter]

Yet another train wreck of a thread...