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Luke 22:42-44 an Easter Forum
- Thread starter revmwc
- Start date
Probably not percho, I believe the cup was death/sheol/the grave, which entailed excruciating pain on the part of our Saviour.
I may agree with you considering: For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
For I think that is the bread of suffering unto the cup of death. See also Deut 16:3 Thou shalt eat no leavened bread with it; seven days shalt thou eat unleavened bread therewith, even the bread of affliction; for thou camest forth out of the land of Egypt in haste: that thou mayest remember the day when thou camest forth out of the land of Egypt all the days of thy life.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
)
First, "the cup" was the torture He would soon suffer-His rejection by His own people, being scourged with a cat-o-nine tails, having His beard yanked out, etc. If His sweat had indeed had been red like blood, it woulda still been on Him when He was busted, & the Romans woulda mentioned it, wondering who had beaten Him.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
d
Here we have the cup up to Jesus' final words and death (implied).
Yes, again, the cup to death.
And we have here the cup being the grave, too, and who knows,
the cup may follow through and refer to all Jesus endured
in His death and burial, up to His Glorious Resurrection. GLORY!
And Jesus answering said, 'Ye have not known what ye ask for yourselves; are ye able to drink of the cup that I am about to drink? and with the baptism that I am baptized with, to be baptized?' They say to him, 'We are able.'
And he saith to them, 'Of my cup indeed ye shall drink, and with the baptism that I am baptized with ye shall be baptized; but to sit on my right hand and on my left is not mine to give, but -- to those for whom it hath been prepared by my father.'
Do the cup and the baptism spoken of in these two verses have the exact same meaning or is the cup something different from the baptism?
And he saith to them, 'Of my cup indeed ye shall drink, and with the baptism that I am baptized with ye shall be baptized; but to sit on my right hand and on my left is not mine to give, but -- to those for whom it hath been prepared by my father.'
Do the cup and the baptism spoken of in these two verses have the exact same meaning or is the cup something different from the baptism?
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
"Jesus saith unto them,
My meat is to do the will of him that sent me,
and to finish his work." John 4:34.
John 18:11b;
"...the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?"
Luke 12:50, "But I have a baptism to be baptized with;
and how am I straitened till it be accomplished"
The meat and drink of Jesus was to suffer death on the cross,
for the sins of His people (Matthew 1:21).
The cup:
John 18:11b;
"...the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?"
When referring to this cup and it's contents symbolic of His blood He was to shed, Jesus is obviously saying that they are symbolizing the suffering that He had already begun to suffer, as "a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief", that would extend throughout His Crucifixion and death.
Borrowing from the language in Psalm 75:8 and Revelation 14:10,
Jesus is said to have drunk the dregs of The Wrath of God for His people,
on the cross.
That "cup" is what Jesus suffered all as a part of His crucifixion,
being "the wine of God's Wrath" that the lost will otherwise suffer.
The baptism:
Jesus "was already wading in the waters of affliction,
"though as yet they were not come into His soul, and He was not yet immersed in them; He was not yet baptized with the bloody baptism He came into this world for, and He was desirous of, Luke 12:50," (Gill),
"But I have a baptism to be baptized with;
and how am I straitened till it be accomplished"
They are the same, for Jesus,
and then the same for the disciples, and yet to a Much, Much Lesser degree.
With regard to Jesus, the cup that He would drink of the dregs of God's Wrath
and the immersion into the sufferings involved in His scourging and crucifixion, pictured figuratively by calling them a baptism are essentially the same.
In Jesus case, "because of the certainty of these things,
the cup was not to pass from Him,
and the baptism of His sufferings was to be surely Accomplished."
...
Then, as far as the disciples go, the language Jesus consents to use, by saying they would drink of a cup and be baptized in suffering, also, yet their sufferings were certainly going to be entirely different and not in the severity in their extent of anything like what Jesus was going to endure, in drinking His cup and in His baptism in suffering.
Jesus' cup to drink and His baptism of suffering were the cross,
described above.
"they were ignorant of their own weakness as well as of the greatness of the sufferings Christ should endure or even they should be called unto: had they had a just notion of either, they would not have expressed themselves in this manner without any mention of the grace of God or any dependence on the strength of Christ; See Gill on Matthew 20:22.
"And Jesus said unto them, ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized; meaning, not that they should undergo the same sufferings he did and much less for the same end and purpose: he trod the winepress alone and bore the whole punishment due to the sins of his people himself; and of them there were none with him to take a part: but that they should endure sufferings in some sort like His for His sake as they both afterwards did;..." (Gill).
No, in respect to the first verse, Jesus' suffering is mentioned and although:
in His case the cup and His baptism ARE essentially the same,
in the second verse where Jesus says that the disciples will have a cup to drink and a baptism of suffer, their cup and baptism are similar as both being the suffering they would experience, too, but nothing compared to His.
To this partial question, then, we have to say they were the same
and that the baptism is a further and fuller symbolic depiction of Jesus being
utterly and entirely submerged, inundated, and immersed in pure agony
and indescribable suffering, as He drank the cup of His Father, in the cruel death of the cross
Jeremiah 25:15 Includes the Symbolism of God's Wrath in a Cup,
which foreshadows the Cup Jesus Took to The Cross.
What is this cup, again?
This cup represents the wine of God's Wrath due sin,
the Judgment due sinners that either Jesus would shed His blood for,
or, as this verse and others below shows, that the rest of lost sinners
would suffer in The Lake of Fire, forever.
"For thus saith the LORD God of Israel unto me;
Take the wine cup of this fury at my hand, and cause all the nations,
to whom I send thee, to drink it."
Jeremiah 25:15.
The cup of God's wrath:
The cup drunk by the nations;
Jeremiah 25:15-17
See also Psalm 75:8; Jeremiah 51:7; Zechariah 12:2-3; Revelation 14:10
God's wrath against Edom:
Jeremiah 49:12; Lamentations 4:21
God's wrath against Babylon:
Habakkuk 2:16; Revelation 16:19; Revelation 18:6
The cup drunk by God's people:
Ezekiel 23:32-34; Isaiah 51:17
Following judgment, God promises to restore his people.
See also Isaiah 51:22
The cup drunk by Jesus Christ:
John 18:11b;
"...the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?"
See also Matthew 20:22-23 pp Mark 10:38-39 Matthew 26:42
The cup of God's wrath may pass from the guilty of humanity
that Jesus was to die for, only if Jesus Christ drinks it.
See also Matthew 26:39 pp Mark 14:36 pp Luke 22:42."
...
(By trying to say that the cup is only referring to Jesus' discomfort that evening, the O.P., has yet to take those contents of the cup, which symbolized the blood that He would shed, under consideration).
(And speaking of those trying to say things, such as that Jesus was specifically addressing all of His words here, to include Judas, when He said this is "the blood that is shed for you", it would be wise for them to take the fact that they would also have to be saying that Jesus only shed His blood for those twelve apostles out of the entire human race, under consideration, when using that form of letterism.)
My meat is to do the will of him that sent me,
and to finish his work." John 4:34.
John 18:11b;
"...the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?"
Luke 12:50, "But I have a baptism to be baptized with;
and how am I straitened till it be accomplished"
The meat and drink of Jesus was to suffer death on the cross,
for the sins of His people (Matthew 1:21).
The cup:
John 18:11b;
"...the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?"
When referring to this cup and it's contents symbolic of His blood He was to shed, Jesus is obviously saying that they are symbolizing the suffering that He had already begun to suffer, as "a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief", that would extend throughout His Crucifixion and death.
Borrowing from the language in Psalm 75:8 and Revelation 14:10,
Jesus is said to have drunk the dregs of The Wrath of God for His people,
on the cross.
That "cup" is what Jesus suffered all as a part of His crucifixion,
being "the wine of God's Wrath" that the lost will otherwise suffer.
The baptism:
Jesus "was already wading in the waters of affliction,
"though as yet they were not come into His soul, and He was not yet immersed in them; He was not yet baptized with the bloody baptism He came into this world for, and He was desirous of, Luke 12:50," (Gill),
"But I have a baptism to be baptized with;
and how am I straitened till it be accomplished"
They are the same, for Jesus,
and then the same for the disciples, and yet to a Much, Much Lesser degree.
With regard to Jesus, the cup that He would drink of the dregs of God's Wrath
and the immersion into the sufferings involved in His scourging and crucifixion, pictured figuratively by calling them a baptism are essentially the same.
In Jesus case, "because of the certainty of these things,
the cup was not to pass from Him,
and the baptism of His sufferings was to be surely Accomplished."
...
Then, as far as the disciples go, the language Jesus consents to use, by saying they would drink of a cup and be baptized in suffering, also, yet their sufferings were certainly going to be entirely different and not in the severity in their extent of anything like what Jesus was going to endure, in drinking His cup and in His baptism in suffering.
Jesus' cup to drink and His baptism of suffering were the cross,
described above.
"they were ignorant of their own weakness as well as of the greatness of the sufferings Christ should endure or even they should be called unto: had they had a just notion of either, they would not have expressed themselves in this manner without any mention of the grace of God or any dependence on the strength of Christ; See Gill on Matthew 20:22.
"And Jesus said unto them, ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized; meaning, not that they should undergo the same sufferings he did and much less for the same end and purpose: he trod the winepress alone and bore the whole punishment due to the sins of his people himself; and of them there were none with him to take a part: but that they should endure sufferings in some sort like His for His sake as they both afterwards did;..." (Gill).
No, in respect to the first verse, Jesus' suffering is mentioned and although:
in His case the cup and His baptism ARE essentially the same,
in the second verse where Jesus says that the disciples will have a cup to drink and a baptism of suffer, their cup and baptism are similar as both being the suffering they would experience, too, but nothing compared to His.
To this partial question, then, we have to say they were the same
and that the baptism is a further and fuller symbolic depiction of Jesus being
utterly and entirely submerged, inundated, and immersed in pure agony
and indescribable suffering, as He drank the cup of His Father, in the cruel death of the cross
Jeremiah 25:15 Includes the Symbolism of God's Wrath in a Cup,
which foreshadows the Cup Jesus Took to The Cross.
What is this cup, again?
This cup represents the wine of God's Wrath due sin,
the Judgment due sinners that either Jesus would shed His blood for,
or, as this verse and others below shows, that the rest of lost sinners
would suffer in The Lake of Fire, forever.
"For thus saith the LORD God of Israel unto me;
Take the wine cup of this fury at my hand, and cause all the nations,
to whom I send thee, to drink it."
Jeremiah 25:15.
The cup of God's wrath:
The cup drunk by the nations;
Jeremiah 25:15-17
See also Psalm 75:8; Jeremiah 51:7; Zechariah 12:2-3; Revelation 14:10
God's wrath against Edom:
Jeremiah 49:12; Lamentations 4:21
God's wrath against Babylon:
Habakkuk 2:16; Revelation 16:19; Revelation 18:6
The cup drunk by God's people:
Ezekiel 23:32-34; Isaiah 51:17
Following judgment, God promises to restore his people.
See also Isaiah 51:22
The cup drunk by Jesus Christ:
John 18:11b;
"...the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?"
See also Matthew 20:22-23 pp Mark 10:38-39 Matthew 26:42
The cup of God's wrath may pass from the guilty of humanity
that Jesus was to die for, only if Jesus Christ drinks it.
See also Matthew 26:39 pp Mark 14:36 pp Luke 22:42."
...
(By trying to say that the cup is only referring to Jesus' discomfort that evening, the O.P., has yet to take those contents of the cup, which symbolized the blood that He would shed, under consideration).
(And speaking of those trying to say things, such as that Jesus was specifically addressing all of His words here, to include Judas, when He said this is "the blood that is shed for you", it would be wise for them to take the fact that they would also have to be saying that Jesus only shed His blood for those twelve apostles out of the entire human race, under consideration, when using that form of letterism.)
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