atpollard
Well-Known Member
Isn’t it fascinating that one HEARS RUMORS that ‘evil Calvinists’ are coming to steal your Church … when the reality is that ‘Calvinist-haters’ are REALLY DRIVING OUT the Calvinists. Stalin would be proud.
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Luther vs. Calvin, and Baptists
- Thread starter ntchristian
- Start date
atpollard
Well-Known Member
How can you tell? Anytime you tru to nail down what a Lutheran believes you end up slapped across the face with their battle cry of “MYSTERY” … where the true mystery is their theology.
Interesting take. The LCMS is monergistic, but holds to baptismal regeneration and universal (unlimited) atonement. Are they "Sovereign Gracers?"
Anglicans seem to be all over the map in theology, as they range form, likes of a Packer and Stott to a heretic like Sponge!
No, as baptismal regeneration is heresy!
Or they seem to run to Luther Catechism
I agree with you that they are all over the map. However, the Anglo-Catholic wing of the Anglican church is without a doubt much closer to the Catholic Church than any Lutheran body, including the LCMS.
I will say, I attended an LCMS national convention as an observer years ago and their celebration of the Eucharist was like attending a pontifical high mass. Without the pontiff, of course.
All Lutheran body's hold to baptismal regeneration.
Main difference between their view and yours seem to be that they see God actually giving saving faith to the baby!
Not in a strict sense, as don;t the see God granting to baby saving faith in the rite?
No, it is ALWAYS God that confers saving grace. Lutherans are in complete agreement with Catholics on infant baptism. You see, parents bring their babies to the waters of baptism by professing a belief in Christ on behalf of the child, and promising to raise him or her in the faith. For adults who are to be baptized, the Church also requires them to profess their faith in Christ.
Because baptism confers saving grace, the earlier a person comes to baptism, the better.
In infant baptism, then, though the child is too young to have faith, the parents extend their faith on the child’s behalf.
On what basis does the Church believe that the faith of one person may be effective on behalf of someone else? The Scriptures are full of examples in which Jesus extends healing grace to people based on the faith of others.
For example, Jesus forgives the sins of the paralytic based on the faith of those who brought him (see Mt 9:2; Mk 2:3-5).Jesus heals the centurion’s servant based on the faith of the centurion (Mt 8:5-13).Jesus exorcises the child’s unclean spirit based on the father’s faith (Mk 9:22-25).
We might also note that in the Old Testament, God spares the firstborn child’s life during the Passover based on the parent’s faith (see Ex 12:24-28).
Given these examples, then, we must ask ourselves: If God is willing to effect spiritual and physical cures for children based upon the faith of their parents, how much more will He give the grace of baptism to children based upon the faith of their parents?
“We can hardly deny that the same Christ is present at baptism and in baptism, in fact is himself the baptizer, who in those days came in his mother’s womb to John. In baptism he can speak as well through the mouth of the priest, as when he spoke through his mother. Since then he is present, speaks, and baptizes, why should not his Word and baptism call forth spirit and faith in the child as then it produced faith in John? He is the same one who speaks and acts then and now.” - Luther’s Works (ed. Jaroslav Pelikan and Helmut T. Lehmann; 55 vols.; Philadelphia: Fortress, 1955–76), 40:245-246
Paul calls baptism "the circumcision of Christ." (Col 2:11) Christ wasn't circumcised when he was 30 years old!
Here's some more satire to point out the obvious...
ntchristian
Active Member
Didn't know where to post this, but just wanted to say I've been enjoying reading the continued discussions on the atonement in the Baptist-only section. Too bad I can't participate, but it may be for the best. I'm passionate about the subject, and I get caught up in the discussion too emotionally, I believe. So, I'm enjoying reading and being quiet. 
DaveXR650
Well-Known Member
Well, you'd fit right in over there. Are you Brethren by any chance?
We never bought into infant baptism!
ntchristian
Active Member
No, ex-Eastern Orthodox, and searching. I feel that in polity, I'm Baptist, and in soteriology I'm still primarily Orthodox, and have affinity with Anabaptists. Know of any church body that combines those emphases?
ntchristian
Active Member
I know.
It's worth remembering Henry VIII was given the title "Defender of the Faith" for a treatise he wrote against Lutheranism.
37818
Well-Known Member
Luther was directly influenced by the Apostle Paul with the book of Romans, was he not? Which goes to the New Testament documents being the actual Apostolic authority for Christians and the churches.