Luther Was Error Free In Every Religious Doctrine

[MennoSota]

I dunno why you want to bring politics. I hate to break it to you but its a Monarchy and Jesus Christ is King.



I don't mind if the story is made up that claim comes dime a dozen to anyone's faith, its just that its a 2000 year old story.

Everyone you have to trust to ensure your bible is the bible says its the truth.



How good is your faith in the word of God? Word of God dictates things like how to pick out a bishop ect, the immediate successors to the apostles who got their posts while apostles are alive, trained by apostles, teach and believe what? They were Catholics. They teach the same teachings.

They were vocal and attacked heresies when they arose.

When did the Catholics arise? where is the historical shock to these new heretics known as Catholics?


There is nothing no where.

Please entertain us. You claim the apostasy well where is it? where is the cry of people against these heresies?

At least make up story with NAMES and DATES. if your going to fake a LIE all your "facts" do it with style.

A 2000 year old lie is still a lie.

Talk to the martyrs like Jan Huss for your outcry.

Somehow you can't conceive of a political institution killing off those who disagree. Did you ever think about how Rome (the capital of the Empire) declared itself the one true church? I doubt you have. You're a puppet of the regime...

 

[utilyan]

No, we would state that salvation is NOT dependent upon us co operating with God thru sacraments to get good enough to merit Him saving us!

Forgiveness is one of God's Sacraments. You are saying God doesn't have to forgive you to be saved.

Show me someone who is saved who does not love God and you win your argument. Its quite simple.

 

[MennoSota]

Forgiveness is one of God's Sacraments. You are saying God doesn't have to forgive you to be saved.

Show me someone who is saved who does not love God and you win your argument. Its quite simple.

Did you even read Yeshua1's statement? I don't think you did because your response has nothing to do with what he said. Please go back and actually address Yeshua1's statement.

 

[utilyan]

A 2000 year old lie is still a lie.

Talk to the martyrs like Jan Huss for your outcry.

Somehow you can't conceive of a political institution killing off those who disagree. Did you ever think about how Rome (the capital of the Empire) declared itself the one true church? I doubt you have. You're a puppet of the regime...

Great Job naming a former Catholic priest in the 1400s. The outcry you need to look for is one 2000 years old not last week.

Where a new heresy "Catholicism" is encountered for the first time, especially if you hold the church was never right.


Something that was never right can't fall into apostasy.


There is a reason they are called REFORMIST and PROTESTANT rather then just the christian faith. That is why newer denominations dump the Reformist and Protestant title in hopes of looking less stupid then they are.


Catholic church it was always evil, well when did it show up?

Catholic church turned evil, well when did it become corrupt?


Pick one and give us some dates and names.

Your best bet is to argue the immediate corruption the apostles and the church. All those early church fathers immediately with the apostles are teaching things like the real presence in the Eucharist.

 

[Yeshua1]

Forgiveness is one of God's Sacraments. You are saying God doesn't have to forgive you to be saved.

Show me someone who is saved who does not love God and you win your argument. Its quite simple.

Do you have any verses that teach that we are not saved by Grace alone faith alone in both Ot/NT?

 

[utilyan]

Did you even read Yeshua1's statement? I don't think you did because your response has nothing to do with what he said. Please go back and actually address Yeshua1's statement.

Well if you look at what he is responding to we say "not because of any merit on our part".

But to declare we don't need sacraments is mistake because he hears a fancy word like sacrament and has his own wild idea of what it means.

God's forgiveness is a sacrament.


If he's saying we can't earn or merit justification, That is fine we never taught this.

 

[utilyan]

Do you have any verses that teach that we are not saved by Grace alone faith alone in both Ot/NT?

Grace alone and faith alone are two things not one. Do you need a refresher course as to what the word alone means?

It means by itself.


Do you have any verses that teach Faith Alone is greater then Jesus Christ?

Your Idolatry of faith, is unacceptable.



You want verse that says no to faith alone? I can give you a couple:

The entire chapter of James 2 is geared towards that "fellow" who thinks faith alone can save him.

James 2

24You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.


The following verse not only knocks out faith, but someone with not only complete faith, BUT DIRECT KNOWLEDGE and complete understanding this is even omniscience. YOU can KNOW everything, that is past trusting and faith that there is milk in the fridge, you absolutely know the the truth that it is there.
This is a faith moving mountains, athiest dont have faith in God to move anything. This is someone moving mountains! they know the truth!

1 Corinthians 13

2If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.

They are NOTHING. not saved.

 

[Yeshua1]

Grace alone and faith alone are two things not one. Do you need a refresher course as to what the word alone means?

It means by itself.


Do you have any verses that teach Faith Alone is greater then Jesus Christ?

Your Idolatry of faith, is unacceptable.



You want verse that says no to faith alone? I can give you a couple:

The entire chapter of James 2 is geared towards that "fellow" who thinks faith alone can save him.

James 2

24You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.


The following verse not only knocks out faith, but someone with not only complete faith, BUT DIRECT KNOWLEDGE and complete understanding this is even omniscience. YOU can KNOW everything, that is past trusting and faith that there is milk in the fridge, you absolutely know the the truth that it is there.
This is a faith moving mountains, athiest dont have faith in God to move anything. This is someone moving mountains! they know the truth!

1 Corinthians 13

2If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.

They are NOTHING. not saved.

There are NO passages that state what saves us is love!

 

[MennoSota]

Great Job naming a former Catholic priest in the 1400s. The outcry you need to look for is one 2000 years old not last week.

Where a new heresy "Catholicism" is encountered for the first time, especially if you hold the church was never right.


Something that was never right can't fall into apostasy.


There is a reason they are called REFORMIST and PROTESTANT rather then just the christian faith. That is why newer denominations dump the Reformist and Protestant title in hopes of looking less stupid then they are.


Catholic church it was always evil, well when did it show up?

Catholic church turned evil, well when did it become corrupt?


Pick one and give us some dates and names.

Your best bet is to argue the immediate corruption the apostles and the church. All those early church fathers immediately with the apostles are teaching things like the real presence in the Eucharist.

The church at Rome was just an underground organization until Constantine politicized the church. Your argument has no validity.
Before that every church just considered themselves to be followers of Jesus, not bound to a group political in Rome. Pull your head out of the popes lap, utilyan.

 

[MennoSota]

Well if you look at what he is responding to we say "not because of any merit on our part".

But to declare we don't need sacraments is mistake because he hears a fancy word like sacrament and has his own wild idea of what it means.

God's forgiveness is a sacrament.


If he's saying we can't earn or merit justification, That is fine we never taught this.

The only persons who think sacraments are fancy are Roman church members who couldn't think their way out of a wet paper sack. None of the ceremonies you perform provide salvation or provide grace. They are just traditional rituals.

 

[Adonia]

Except jesus and Paul stated God ONLY requires faith in jesus to save!

And what is the first thing that the new believer is required to do? Why be baptized of course! See, it is a co-operation by the new believer who yes, first has faith that Jesus Christ is indeed the Messiah. If faith is the only thing required, then why is baptism mentioned so many times? Duh!

 

[Adonia]

The only persons who think sacraments are fancy are Roman church members who couldn't think their way out of a wet paper sack. None of the ceremonies you perform provide salvation or provide grace. They are just traditional rituals.

Sorry, but all orthodox faith traditions accept the sacraments. You know, like our Eastern Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, and Coptic Christian brothers to name a few. You are a minority in regards to this and there is no reason for anyone to follow your proscriptions on faith matters.

 

[utilyan]

There are NO passages that state what saves us is love!

John 3

16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.


Love is the Boss, Aka God.


1 John 4

8The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love.


1 John 4

16We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.


The one who abides in love. THE ONE WHO ABIDES IN LOVE. <<----- Abides in God.


You hate love because you hate God.

 

[Adonia]

Except that Scriptures stated paul was JUST as important as Him, as he was Apostle to Gentiles, Peter to the Jews, so there were 2 Popes then?

I explained that St. Peter was the administrator (overseer) and St. Paul was the evangelist, so no, there was not 2 Popes, just St. Peter at the beginning. I mean really, this is not rockect science considering all the history that has been written down about this.

Consider the following testimony. Tertullian, in The Demurrer Against the Heretics (A.D. 200), noted of Rome, “How happy is that church . . . where Peter endured a passion like that of the Lord, where Paul was crowned in a death like John’s [referring to John the Baptist, both he and Paul being beheaded].” It was commonly accepted, from the very first, that both Peter and Paul were martyred at Rome, probably in the Neronian persecution in the 60s.

Tertullian also wrote that “this is the way in which the apostolic churches transmit their lists: like the church of the Smyrnaeans, which records that Polycarp was placed there by John; like the church of the Romans, where Clement was ordained by Peter.”

This Clement, known as Clement of Rome, later would be the fourth pope. Clement wrote his Letter to the Corinthians perhaps before the year 70, just a few years after Peter and Paul were killed; in it he made reference to Peter ending his life where Paul ended his.

 

[utilyan]

The only persons who think sacraments are fancy are Roman church members who couldn't think their way out of a wet paper sack. None of the ceremonies you perform provide salvation or provide grace. They are just traditional rituals.

Well traditional ceremonies is only because we think God deserves better then Kool-aid and Crackers.

The Sacraments themselves are gift from God.


Commands of God we do those for free. We are not gold diggers seeking salvation first or too lazy like calvinist to do anything for God if it doesn't earn them anything.

You guys don't even pray for forgiveness.

 

[Adonia]

Well since I am not Jewish then why would I want to have a bar mitzvah? And why is it absurd that I attend the local Catholic parish on Saturday Vigil Mass, attend the local Baptist Church on Sunday mornings and that I am both a Baptized Catholic and a Baptized Baptist?

You are a baptized Christian. This action can only be done once, the 2nd time you just got wet.

 

[MennoSota]

Sorry, but all orthodox faith traditions accept the sacraments. You know, like our Eastern Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, and Coptic Christian brothers to name a few. You are a minority in regards to this and there is no reason for anyone to follow your proscriptions on faith matters.

Once again, a 2000 year old lie is still a lie. No grace is ever given through the ceremonies your priest performs. In addition, nowhere in the Bible can you find grace merits being doled out through a ritual ceremony. When we partake of communion we remember Yeshua and his atoning sacrifice for his adopted children. We don't magically eat his flesh or drink his blood. Even the pagans were revolted by that claim. Bread is bread. Wine is wine. Remembrance is remembering. Ceremonies are just ceremonies. Nothing in the Roman sacraments is of any greater value than the fellowship people can have around a campfire.

 

[MennoSota]

John 3

16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.


Love is the Boss, Aka God.


1 John 4

8The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love.


1 John 4

16We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.


The one who abides in love. THE ONE WHO ABIDES IN LOVE. <<----- Abides in God.


You hate love because you hate God.

LOL, you have a pretzeled mind, utilyan.

 

[MennoSota]

I explained that St. Peter was the administrator (overseer) and St. Paul was the evangelist, so no, there was not 2 Popes, just St. Peter at the beginning. I mean really, this is not rockect science considering all the history that has been written down about this.

Consider the following testimony. Tertullian, in The Demurrer Against the Heretics (A.D. 200), noted of Rome, “How happy is that church . . . where Peter endured a passion like that of the Lord, where Paul was crowned in a death like John’s [referring to John the Baptist, both he and Paul being beheaded].” It was commonly accepted, from the very first, that both Peter and Paul were martyred at Rome, probably in the Neronian persecution in the 60s.

Tertullian also wrote that “this is the way in which the apostolic churches transmit their lists: like the church of the Smyrnaeans, which records that Polycarp was placed there by John; like the church of the Romans, where Clement was ordained by Peter.”

This Clement, known as Clement of Rome, later would be the fourth pope. Clement wrote his Letter to the Corinthians perhaps before the year 70, just a few years after Peter and Paul were killed; in it he made reference to Peter ending his life where Paul ended his.

Nope. Peter was never a pope and Peter was married. The pope is a made up political position coming from the Roman government, not from God.

 

[MennoSota]

Well traditional ceremonies is only because we think God deserves better then Kool-aid and Crackers.

The Sacraments themselves are gift from God.


Commands of God we do those for free. We are not gold diggers seeking salvation first or too lazy like calvinist to do anything for God if it doesn't earn them anything.

You guys don't even pray for forgiveness.

You use cheap wine and some wafer made in a factory. Don't kid yourself about the holiness of the actual elements used.

We hold communion solemnly because we remember Yeshua's great love in atoning for our sin at Calvary. We don't hold the elements to be anything more than chemicals bonded together.