Made righteous by Christ obedience.

[convicted1]

I never heard of this doctrine. Can you explain it?

Satan/Lucifer had "physical relations" with Eve, and Cain is their offspring. Adam had "physical relations" with Eve, and Abel was their offspring. Those who fell in Adam are the elect. The offspring of Cain were never part of the elect, and will never be offered salvation. Damniible heresy to the core.


All who fell in Adam will be saved. All who fell in Cain, are of the devil, and will never be offered any type of call to repentance.

 

[convicted1]

Here's the link to this scary doctrine:

http://www.gotquestions.org/serpent-seed.html

And an excerpt from it:

Simply stated, the serpent seed doctrine teaches that the sin of Eve was not simple disobedience, but sexual contact with the serpent, and that Cain was the son of Eve and the devil. Cain’s descendants are, according to this idea, the sons of Satan, and this includes most any race or group that the serpent-seed believer chooses to dislike. This idea is rooted in superstitious beliefs and is particularly popular with white supremacists and anti-Semites; the Unification Church also supports this idea. Noted false prophets and false teachers such as Arnold Murray of Shepherd’s Chapel and William Branham espoused the idea. Although an idea should not be criticized when it is wrongly applied, it is appropriate to condemn an idea when it logically leads to sin. A philosophy that teaches that some races or people are universally satanic, like the serpent seed doctrine, is one such philosophy.

Yep, as I said, this is one scaaarrryyy doctrine.

 

[savedbymercy]

dac

do you hold that either God declares us just and righteous based upon receiving Christ

What does Rom 5:19 say ?

19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Does it say that by the receiving of Christ many are declared Righteous ? Because that word made does mean declare also, it is the greek word kathistēmi:


to set, place, put

a) to set one over a thing (in charge of it)

b) to appoint one to administer an office

c) to set down as, constitute, to declare, show to be

d) to constitute, to render, make, cause to be

e) to conduct or bring to a certain place

f) to show or exhibit one's self

1) come forward as

So Rom 5:19 could appositely read Rom 5:19

19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be declared righteous.

 

[savedbymercy]

jonc

I believe what was implied in his question was that Adam and Eve were created in God’s image, the seed of the serpent was not.

Correct ! Adam and Eve pictured Christ and the Church in their Creation, Paul links that in Eph 5:30-32

30For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

31For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

32This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

The devil has a seed that is different from the seed of the woman

Absolutely !

In this sense, I take it a spiritual sense, there are two races of men.

Yes, that is what I was saying. However both seeds needed to be brought into the world physically by procreation, and God used Physical relations of a man and woman to do that. God's Purpose for Creating Adam and Eve was for the Godly Seed of the Elect Mal 2:15

And did not he make one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth.

Thats the seed of the woman ! God's purpose to bring in the seed of the serpent occasioned man to sin through eve, and because of this, God was Just in making her conceptions no longer for the Godly seed alone, but for the serpents seed as well, So God said He was going to multiply her conception, to make it more than for just one race of the Godly seed, but now also to the ungodly seed. Gen 3:15-16

15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Because of sin, Adam and Eve would have to bring into the world not only their seed, that of the Godly or Elect, but that of the Serpents as well.

Adam and Eve had Normal Sexual Relations, and she conceived and brought forth cain Gen 4:1

1And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

But this conception was out of the serpents seed, how do we know ? 1 Jn 3:12

12Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

Cain who was of that wicked one ! The word of is important here, it is the greek prep ek
and it primarily denotes origin:

out of, from, by, away from

So cain, though born through normal relations of a man and woman was yet constituted by God as being out of the Wicked One, a Child of the Wicked One, Just as these in My Lord's Parable Matt 13:38

The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

Now sense you did critique what I posted earlier fairly well, please do the same for this post, not saying you will agree, but at least see where I am coming from !

 

[JonC]

Yes, that is what I was saying. However both seeds needed to be brought into the world physically by procreation, and God used Physical relations of a man and woman to do that. God's Purpose for Creating Adam and Eve was for the Godly Seed of the Elect Mal 2:15

And did not he make one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth.

Thats the seed of the woman ! God's purpose to bring in the seed of the serpent occasioned man to sin through eve, and because of this, God was Just in making her conceptions no longer for the Godly seed alone, but for the serpents seed as well, So God said He was going to multiply her conception, to make it more than for just one race of the Godly seed, but now also to the ungodly seed. Gen 3:15-16

15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Because of sin, Adam and Eve would have to bring into the world not only their seed, that of the Godly or Elect, but that of the Serpents as well.

Adam and Eve had Normal Sexual Relations, and she conceived and brought forth cain Gen 4:1

1And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

But this conception was out of the serpents seed, how do we know ? 1 Jn 3:12

12Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

Cain who was of that wicked one ! The word of is important here, it is the greek prep ek
and it primarily denotes origin:

out of, from, by, away from

So cain, though born through normal relations of a man and woman was yet constituted by God as being out of the Wicked One, a Child of the Wicked One, Just as these in My Lord's Parable Matt 13:38

The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

Now sense you did critique what I posted earlier fairly well, please do the same for this post, not saying you will agree, but at least see where I am coming from !

Please correct me if I’m mistaking, but what I understand you to be saying is that both the elect and the non-elect (both seeds) are physically the same – one may have two children, each of different seeds (spiritually different races). The woman’s “sorrow” is that she will, after the fall, bring forth both the elect (the godly seed, one’s in the image of God) and the non-elect (the serpents seed, whose father is the devil).

If I understand you correctly, then salvation is in a sense a separation of the wheat from the tares. Christ came to save that which were lost, that is, those who are of the godly seed that belong to Him. The elect are not saved because of what they do, but because of what they are, because they are created in the image of God. Christ died to deliver the elect from God’s wrath, to redeem the godly seed out of the wrath to come. Appeasing God’s anger, Christ saves those who were created for salvation.

From what you state in post #9, Convicted1’s statements regarding the “two seed” theory is not your view in that you do not present Satan as having sexual relations with Eve. It is instead a spiritual issue. The flesh is the same, but the spirit is not. Men are men, but the “elect” were never the “non-elect.”

If I have misstated anything, I apologize, but this is my understanding of the view that you present here thus far – so please correct me if I have made an error regarding your words.

 

[savedbymercy]

jonc

Please correct me if I’m mistaking, but what I understand you to be saying is that both the elect and the non-elect (both seeds) are physically the same – one may have two children, each of different seeds (spiritually different races). The woman’s “sorrow” is that she will, after the fall, bring forth both the elect (the godly seed, one’s in the image of God) and the non-elect (the serpents seed, whose father is the devil).

Thats the gist of what I am saying !

If I understand you correctly, then salvation is in a sense a separation of the wheat from the tares. Christ came to save that which were lost, that is, those who are of the godly seed that belong to Him. The elect are not saved because of what they do, but because of what they are, because they are created in the image of God. Christ died to deliver the elect from God’s wrath, to redeem the godly seed out of the wrath to come. Appeasing God’s anger, Christ saves those who were created for salvation.

Sounds Good !

From what you state in post #9, Convicted1’s statements regarding the “two seed” theory is not your view in that you do not present Satan as having sexual relations with Eve.

Correct !

It is instead a spiritual issue. The flesh is the same, but the spirit is not. Men are men, but the “elect” were never the “non-elect.”

Yes, The Elect and Non Elect are both born with the same nature by physical birth Ps 51:5

5Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

However, the Elect will receive a New Birth out of the Incorruptible Seed[Christ] 1 Pet 1:23

23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

If I have misstated anything, I apologize, but this is my understanding of the view that you present here thus far – so please correct me if I have made an error regarding your words.

Your assessment has been fair and pretty much on target !

 

[The Biblicist]

God redeemed the elect according to His PURPOSE before the world began.

God redeemed the elect according to His PROVISION in Christ at the cross.

God redeemed the elect according to their PERSON at regeneration/justification

Prior to His application at regeneration/justification they were not redeemed PERSONALLY other than by purpose and provision. Hence, they were children of wrath and under condemnation prior to personal application of God's purpose and provision.

The "seed" of the Serpent are ALL FALLEN MANKIND while "her seed" refers to Jesus Christ.

SBG is teaching absolute heretical nonsense.

 

[savedbymercy]

the bib

The "seed" of the Serpent are ALL FALLEN MANKIND

Thats a Lie prove it with scripture !

they were children of wrath and under condemnation prior to personal application of God's purpose and provision.

The Elect , yes by nature they were children of wrath, meaning children worthy of wrath, but never children of the devil, that is Blasphemy to call that which was Created in the Image and Likeness of God, Children of the Devil. And the Elect were never under God's condemnation, for Christ bore that upon Himself, even while they were enemies by nature they had been been reconciled to God Rom 5:10 and God's wrath for them had been appeased 1 Jn 2:2

So you do speak lies !

 

[The Biblicist]

the bib



Thats a Lie prove it with scripture !



The Elect , yes by nature they were children of wrath, meaning children worthy of wrath, but never children of the devil, that is Blasphemy to call that which was Created in the Image and Likeness of God, Children of the Devil. And the Elect were never under God's condemnation, for Christ bore that upon Himself, even while they were enemies by nature they had been been reconciled to God Rom 5:10 and God's wrath for them had been appeased 1 Jn 2:2

So you do speak lies !

The Bible clearly teaches that the elect must be "BORN AGAIN" and thus they did not come into this world as the children of God but the children of Satan ("children of disobedience....EVEN AS OTHERS") as they were translated out of the KINGDOM OF DARKNESS into the kingdom of light.

 

[savedbymercy]

bib

The Bible clearly teaches that the elect must be "BORN AGAIN

I know that, but why ? Because they are Children of God. God sends the Spirit of regeneration because they are already Sons Gal 4:6

6And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

They were never Children of the Devil, they were Children of Adam, who by Nature is the Son of God Lk 3:38

38Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

They becoming sinners only made them fit to be vessels of mercy, which Gid made them in Adam to be !

So you are way off into error, calling God's Children, of the Devil ! Blasphemy !

 

[DaChaser1]

I don't think it would be "inherited," because he is viewing them as seperate races - something from an altogether different "seed."

Is he teaching a vaiation of the heritical demon seed, that satan had sex with Eve and produced line of cain?

 

[The Biblicist]

bib



I know that, but why ? Because they are Children of God. God sends the Spirit of regeneration because they are already Sons Gal 4:6

6And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

They were never Children of the Devil, they were Children of Adam, who by Nature is the Son of God Lk 3:38

38Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

They becoming sinners only made them fit to be vessels of mercy, which Gid made them in Adam to be !

So you are way off into error, calling God's Children, of the Devil ! Blasphemy !

What irrational nonsense!!!! Galatians 4:6 uses the present tense "ye are" demonstrating what they are AT THE TIME OF WRITING as they had already been born again by the Spirit of God PREVIOUSLY to the TIME OF WRITING this epistle. He tells them that Christ had been formed in them under his minsitry when they were converted to the gospel. He is not talking about eternity past!!!!!!! That is pure nonsense!

They are never called "the children of God" before new birth! Both Abel and Seth were born sinners by nature, children of disobedience, children of satan by NATURE and thus needed to be born again by the Spirit of God upon coversion to Christ as "ALL THE PROPHETS" preached faith in Christ for remission of sin (Acts 10:43) and Abel is listed by Christ as the very first prophet.

You blaspheme God by demanding that the elect were united with God as one in nature before the world began. You blaspheme Christ by denying he is the flesh and blood of Mary yet without sin nature due to the incarnation. You blaspheme God's salvation by isolating God's Purpose and Provision and making them stand alone apart from God's application of His purpose and Provision. You blaspheme the doctrine of grace by asserting the elect were never under condemnation and always the "children of God" in regard to their being.

 

[convicted1]

Is he teaching a vaiation of the heritical demon seed, that satan had sex with Eve and produced line of cain?

No. However, it is similiar to it.

 

[JonC]

Is he teaching a vaiation of the heritical demon seed, that satan had sex with Eve and produced line of cain?

No. Savedbymercy is not presenting Satan has having sexual relations with Eve, or Adam as having relations with a demon. The similarities are in the differing races of men (spiritually), but savedbymercy is not teaching that paticular heresy.

 

[savedbymercy]

bib

What irrational nonsense!!!! Galatians 4:6 uses the present tense "ye are"

It should be present tense, just like the lost son, even while he was lost, and before he came to himself, he was always a son !

When the elect sinned in adam, they did stop being sons, they lost fellowship with God and became alienated by nature, the elect remained sons. they needed to be reconciled subjectively, and that comes from New Birth, that Life they had in seed substance in Christ.

You really are ignorant to these things !

 

[savedbymercy]

No. Savedbymercy is not presenting Satan has having sexual relations with Eve, or Adam as having relations with a demon. The similarities are in the differing races of men (spiritually), but savedbymercy is not teaching that paticular heresy.

Thanks Jonc, its good to have someone reading exactly what i have stated, though you may disagree.

 

[savedbymercy]

bib

They are never called "the children of God" before new birth!

More ignorance, that is what they are called in Jn 11:51-52

51And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

52And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

Your statement is so foolish, its like saying the Sheep are not Sheep before New Birth Lol..

 

[The Biblicist]

bib



It should be present tense, just like the lost son, even while he was lost, and before he came to himself, he was always a son !

You missed the point! The present tense refers to AFTER their new birth because the letter was written AFTER their new birth. Obviously, then their new birth PRECEDED the writing of this letter. This text makes no point for your heresy at all!

 

[The Biblicist]

bib



More ignorance, that is what they are called in Jn 11:51-52

51And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

52And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

Your statement is so foolish, its like saying the Sheep are not Sheep before New Birth Lol..

This refers to PROPHECY or can't you read? - "He PROPHESIED". The elect are prophetically God's sheep, children, saved, redeemed, by PURPOSE and thus the material for PROPHECY. However, until the prophecy which is based upon God's purpose is fulfilled in their actual salvation they are not God's sheep, children, saved, redeemed in regard to their actual person.

You confuse God's purpose with reality and therefore make the oxymoronic application of prophecy BEFORE it is fulfilled! That is moronic!

 

[DaChaser1]

bib



More ignorance, that is what they are called in Jn 11:51-52

51And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

52And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

Your statement is so foolish, its like saying the Sheep are not Sheep before New Birth Lol..

Apostle paul stated that we ALL were under the domenion/rule of Sin, that we ALL were children of the dark, that we wee ALl sinners before God, ALL were in Kingdom of satan...

jesus death provided means to allow God to take freely children under Sin and the Kingdom of satan into Kingdom of christ...

WHEN was that?

ONCE they were saved when pacing faith into name of the only One under Heaven given by god among men!

Are you as inspired as Paul was now?
You would HAVE to be, as your teaching contridicts his completely!