Made sinners?

[Piper]

Loss of fellowship with God, i.e. forfeiture, is a well accepted consequence of sin.

Consequence. Not translation.

 

[Van]

Consequence. Not translation.

Endless denial of the obvious.
If we have sinned = we have suffered the consequence of sin = forfeited fellowship.

Here is the simple truth, to sin or to miss the mark is to lose the benefit of fellowship with God. Thus "all have sinned" is more accurately translated "all have forfeited" because the verse is conveying the consequence of sin.

Romans 5:12:
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned-- (NASB)​

Obviously loss of fellowship with God results in being separated, i.e. dead in sin, and this separation spread to all humans because all forfeited.

 

[Piper]

Endless denial of the obvious.
If we have sinned = we have suffered the consequence of sin = forfeited fellowship.

Here is the simple truth, to sin or to miss the mark is to lose the benefit of fellowship with God. Thus "all have sinned" is more accurately translated "all have forfeited" because the verse is conveying the consequence of sin.

Romans 5:12:
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned-- (NASB)​

Obviously loss of fellowship with God results in being separated, i.e. dead in sin, and this separation spread to all humans because all forfeited.

No, "All Have sinned" is not accurately translated "All have Forfeited."

Show me a lexical entry that says Forfeit is acceptable for the Greek word ημαρτον

Bauer-Arndt-Gingrish-Danker (BAGD), the standard Greek Lexicon for graduate level theology, has no entry for forfeit. Nothing even close.
There is one definition "To commit a wrong, to sin."

 

[Van]

No, "All Have sinned" is not accurately translated "All have Forfeited."

Show me a lexical entry that says Forfeit is acceptable for the Greek word ημαρτον

Bauer-Arndt-Gingrish-Danker (BAGD), the standard Greek Lexicon for graduate level theology, has no entry for forfeit. Nothing even close.
There is one definition "To commit a wrong, to sin."

More taint so.
Show mean a lexicon that denies the word translated sin does not include the consequence, forfeiture, of sin.

If we have sinned = we have suffered the consequence of sin = forfeited fellowship.

Here is the simple truth, to sin or to miss the mark is to lose the benefit of fellowship with God. Thus "all have sinned" is more accurately translated "all have forfeited" because the verse is conveying the consequence of sin.

Romans 5:12:
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned-- (NASB)

Obviously loss of fellowship with God results in being separated, i.e. dead in sin, and this separation spread to all humans because all forfeited.

 

[Van]

Ever wonder why we who have been born anew do not sin in God's eyes, if we do or think things that would be considered sin if we had not been born anew?

Pay no attention to those seeking to redefine as sin as not having consequences. Sin without consequence is not sin.

What had the babies who had done nothing good or bad done? They had forfeited fellowship due to the consequence of Adam sin. Thus the most accurate translation is all have forfeited.

If we hit the mark we get our portion, with we miss the mark we do not get our portion.

Pretty basic truth!!

 

[Van]

No, "All Have sinned" is not accurately translated "All have Forfeited."

Show me a lexical entry that says Forfeit is acceptable for the Greek word ημαρτον

Bauer-Arndt-Gingrish-Danker (BAGD), the standard Greek Lexicon for graduate level theology, has no entry for forfeit. Nothing even close.
There is one definition "To commit a wrong, to sin."

More taint so.
Show mean a lexicon that denies the word translated sin does not include the consequence, forfeiture, of sin.

If we have sinned = we have suffered the consequence of sin = forfeited fellowship.

Here is the simple truth, to sin or to miss the mark is to lose the benefit of fellowship with God. Thus "all have sinned" is more accurately translated "all have forfeited" because the verse is conveying the consequence of sin.

Romans 5:12:
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned-- (NASB)

Obviously loss of fellowship with God results in being separated, i.e. dead in sin, and this separation spread to all humans because all forfeited.

 

[Van]

If we have sinned = we have suffered the consequence of sin = forfeited fellowship.

Here is the simple truth, to sin or to miss the mark is to lose the benefit of fellowship with God. Thus "all have sinned" is more accurately translated "all have forfeited" because the verse is conveying the consequence of sin.

Romans 5:12:
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned-- (NASB)

Obviously loss of fellowship with God results in being separated, i.e. dead in sin, and this separation spread to all humans because all forfeited.

 

[Van]

Sin is sometimes referring to the errant thought or action, and at other times the judgement against the person. All have sinned refers in my view, that all have the separation judgement applied to them. Thus, (1) they had done nothing wrong, and (2) they did not share Adam's guilt, but were made sinners (made separated and corrupted) as a consequence of Adam's sin.

1) Scripture says the babies, Romans 9, had done nothing good or bad.
2) God does not punish the children for the sins of the fathers, but the consequences of our father's sins are visited (inflicted) on the children.
3) All humanity is inflicted with the consequence of Adam's sin, the forfeiting of fellowship due to being made sinners.

 

[Van]

Romans 9:11
for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls,

Since they had been "made sinners" yet had not done anything good or bad, they had forfeited fellowship due to the consequences of Adam's sin being inflicted upon them.