Made us dead to the Law !

[savedbymercy]

Made us dead to the Law ! 3

Rom 7:4

4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Now by the Body of Christ, that is to say , by His Death, we were made Dead to the Laws condemning power, which also means that, although we still sin daily in regards to God's Holy Moral Law, either by tongue, our thoughts or manifested actions out of the heart Matt 15:19 ,

Because by Christ's Death making us dead to the Law, none of those sins can be charged to us to condemn us before God,

Pauls words in Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Well that charge does include any charge or transgression against God's Law !

For instance, suppose one for whom Christ died/or a brother in Christ is guilty of what Jesus calls Adultery here Matt 5:28 and that word looking blepon means to gaze at, and its in the present tense, a continual state of gazing, lusting after her, at that time they are committing Adultery in their heart, a violation of the seventh commandment of the Moral Law of God See Ex 20:14, and before the eyes of a Holy God, this is worthy of death, even eternal death, the wrath of God Eph 5:6,

Yet this Transgression [see James 2:10-11] will not be and cannot be layed to their charge, God does not charge them with it because of whats stated in Rom 7:4 being dead to the Law by the Body of Christ !

 

[PreachTony]

Rom 7:4

4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Now by the Body of Christ, that is to say , by His Death, we were made Dead to the Laws condemning power, which also means that, although we still sin daily in regards to God's Holy Moral Law, either by tongue, our thoughts or manifested actions out of the heart Matt 15:19 ,

Because by Christ's Death making us dead to the Law, none of those sins can be charged to us to condemn us before God,

Pauls words in Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Well that charge does include any charge or transgression against God's Law !

For instance, suppose one for whom Christ died/or a brother in Christ is guilty of what Jesus calls Adultery here Matt 5:28 and that word looking blepon means to gaze at, and its in the present tense, a continual state of gazing, lusting after her, at that time they are committing Adultery in their heart, a violation of the seventh commandment of the Moral Law of God See Ex 20:14, and before the eyes of a Holy God, this is worthy of death, even eternal death, the wrath of God Eph 5:6,

Yet this Transgression [see James 2:10-11] will not be and cannot be layed to their charge, God does not charge them with it because of whats stated in Rom 7:4 being dead to the Law by the Body of Christ !

Emphasis added
It really does sound like you are making the case that the Elect are free to sin, since not even God will lay a charge against them. You state an example of "one for whom Christ died/or a brother in Christ" committing adultery by lusting after a woman. But you act as though it's okay for that person to sin, because they won't be charged with the sin.

Look, I agree that we are not under the law any more (as we are under grace), but it does not mean that the law is no longer a good moral guide for us to consider. Even after we are saved we must still repent of our sins. Even the Lordship Salvationists believe we must continually repent. Unless you clarify your point of view here, SBM, you are giving off the impression that repentance is unnecessary for the Elect, as they are not accountable for sin any more.

Thats an evasion tatic, because you are asking me about something I did not post !

I want you to rehearse with me exactly what I posted, not something I did not post ! Now read the OP, in fact now, My first Two posts in this thread, and explain back to me exactly what I posted without you asking a evasive question of something I did not state !

Archangel, like myself, was seeking clarification on your OP. We both made inference from what you wrote, and simply sought clarification. Instead, you just blame him of "evasion tactics." Here's the deal, we aren't going to "rehearse" your points. We'll quote them, in order to gain greater clarity of your point of view, but we won't rehearse them, because we aren't going to let you put words in our mouths.

Just answer our questions, as we've tried to answer yours. Seeking clarification based on what we infer from your posts is not evasion.

 

[The Archangel]

Rom 7:4

4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Now by the Body of Christ, that is to say , by His Death, we were made Dead to the Laws condemning power, which also means that, although we still sin daily in regards to God's Holy Moral Law, either by tongue, our thoughts or manifested actions out of the heart Matt 15:19 ,

Because by Christ's Death making us dead to the Law, none of those sins can be charged to us to condemn us before God,

Pauls words in Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Well that charge does include any charge or transgression against God's Law !

For instance, suppose one for whom Christ died/or a brother in Christ is guilty of what Jesus calls Adultery here Matt 5:28 and that word looking blepon means to gaze at, and its in the present tense, a continual state of gazing, lusting after her, at that time they are committing Adultery in their heart, a violation of the seventh commandment of the Moral Law of God See Ex 20:14, and before the eyes of a Holy God, this is worthy of death, even eternal death, the wrath of God Eph 5:6,

Yet this Transgression [see James 2:10-11] will not be and cannot be layed to their charge, God does not charge them with it because of whats stated in Rom 7:4 being dead to the Law by the Body of Christ !

You REALLY need to learn what context is....

The Archangel

 

[salzer mtn]

A Christian I believe has to find a balance and be careful of not becoming a legalist in trying to keep a bunch of laws that will bring you right back under bondage and stir up the law of sin in your members and be careful also of not becoming a Antinomian without law, which sin that grace may abound.

 

[steaver]

You REALLY need to learn what context is....

The Archangel

Now that is gong to get you a rehearsal invitation. :tongue3:

 

[steaver]

A Christian I believe has to find a balance and be careful of not becoming a legalist in trying to keep a bunch of laws that will bring you right back under bondage and stir up the law of sin in your members and be careful also of not becoming a Antinomian without law, which sin that grace may abound.

Amen! I believe we are all guilty from time to time of letting ourselves get legalistic on subjects. We have to keep our guard up to this less the Law becomes our Saviour and we lose sight of the cross of Christ. We can also become judge and jury projecting our own pet convictions upon others. :thumbsup:

I worked with a brother in Christ that was so paranoid about wrong doing that he would obsess with making sure his speedometer was not even 1 mile per hour over the posted speed limit.

 

[savedbymercy]

Made us dead to the Law ! 4

Rom 7:4

4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Folks this is a profound Truth, but they for whom Christ died are dead to the Law, and so they are dead to the sevre consequences of having sinned against it, one such consequence is death; Recall back in 1 Cor 15:56 that the strength of sin is the Law :

56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

Death has its right to reign because its the result of sinning against the Law, so the Law gives sin its power , which sin gives death its power. Death is the consequence of sin Rom 6:23

23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Sin here was against God's Law or Command first by Adam's transgression from this Law/Command Gen 2:16-17

16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

So sense we become dead to the Law by the Body of Christ, sin cannot be charged, and so death, all types of it, can no longer be a Lawful consequence, hence all for whom Christ died, as a matter of Divine Justice must be redeemed out of death, that does include but not limited to Spiritual Death. Paul says Christ has abolished death 2 Tim 1:10 !

Thats why its important for all whom Christ died to be made alive unto God, hence all for whom Christ died, to validate the Truth that He for them has abolished death and that by His Body they are dead to the Law, they must be made alive unto God or another way of saying it is that they must be born again Eph 2:5

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened[made alive] us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

If all for whom Christ died are not made alive, its a miscarriage of Justice, and it means that Christ's death did not abolish death !

 

[The Archangel]

Rom 7:4

4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Folks this is a profound Truth, but they for whom Christ died are dead to the Law, and so they are dead to the sevre consequences of having sinned against it, one such consequence is death; Recall back in 1 Cor 15:56 that the strength of sin is the Law :

56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

Death has its right to reign because its the result of sinning against the Law, so the Law gives sin its power , which sin gives death its power. Death is the consequence of sin Rom 6:23

23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Sin here was against God's Law or Command first by Adam's transgression from this Law/Command Gen 2:16-17

16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

So sense we become dead to the Law by the Body of Christ, sin cannot be charged, and so death, all types of it, can no longer be a Lawful consequence, hence all for whom Christ died, as a matter of Divine Justice must be redeemed out of death, that does include but not limited to Spiritual Death. Paul says Christ has abolished death 2 Tim 1:10 !

Thats why its important for all whom Christ died to be made alive unto God, hence all for whom Christ died, to validate the Truth that He for them has abolished death and that by His Body they are dead to the Law, they must be made alive unto God or another way of saying it is that they must be born again Eph 2:5

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened[made alive] us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

If all for whom Christ died are not made alive, its a miscarriage of Justice, and it means that Christ's death did not abolish death !

So... what exactly is your point and why should we care?

The Archangel

 

[thatbrian]

Amen! I believe we are all guilty from time to time of letting ourselves get legalistic on subjects. We have to keep our guard up to this less the Law becomes our Saviour and we lose sight of the cross of Christ. We can also become judge and jury projecting our own pet convictions upon others. :thumbsup:

I worked with a brother in Christ that was so paranoid about wrong doing that he would obsess with making sure his speedometer was not even 1 mile per hour over the posted speed limit.

Sin is slavery, and trying to justify or sanctify yourself BY the law is also slavery.

It's interesting that Paul says that it is for the sake of freedom that Christ set us free. He did not say it was for salvation, which of course it also is. He said for freedom's sake. That's telling.

I have found much freedom from legalism since I've come to grasp Reformed theology. In fact, I would say that's the biggest change in my life. Free at last. Free at last!

 

[Yeshua1]

And so... are you arguing that Christians are now free to do whatever? To break the law, wherever it might suit us, to have adultery, etc.?

The Archangel

No, rather he is stating, again, that a Christian became one due to the will of God, period, and that it all happened before we even heard or believed unto the lord jesus for salvation!

 

[Yeshua1]

I doubt you are arguing for a "works" salvation... But how does what you posted and what savedbymercy posted go together? After all, being dead to the law and following His commandments are both in the Bible, are they not?

Surely we shouldn't nullify one or both of the ideas? So, how do they go together?

Blessings,

The Archangel

our friend is SDA, and so he does indeed hold to the Gospel of we must keep the Sabbath and obey all the teaching of hiis prophetess in order to merit and keep real salvation!

 

[steaver]

Sin is slavery, and trying to justify or sanctify yourself BY the law is also slavery.

It's interesting that Paul says that it is for the sake of freedom that Christ set us free. He did not say it was for salvation, which of course it also is. He said for freedom's sake. That's telling.

I have found much freedom from legalism since I've come to grasp Reformed theology. In fact, I would say that's the biggest change in my life. Free at last. Free at last!

I guess I never believed I was sanctified by following the Law. I was born-again at a young age (10) and afterward became aware pretty quickly that following the Law just wasn't a reality, so I quickly became a believer of faith alone. When the Lord called me to study His Word at the age of 33, I opposed legalism from the start, so I guess becoming reformed would not make me feel any freer than I have always felt in Christ. Please do not take this as though I believe I am free to sin, only free from the penalty of sin. Sin, even in a believers life, has consequences, even though one of those consequences is not a loss of salvation.

 

[steaver]

our friend is SDA, and so he does indeed hold to the Gospel of we must keep the Sabbath and obey all the teaching of hiis prophetess in order to merit and keep real salvation!

The SDA church has "evolved" over the years as to include other believers who do not hold to their Sabbath views concerning salvation. And for that matter all the other views in which their church teaches must be followed. Basically, they give a pass to those who are ignorant to their teachings, or the Holy Spirit has not yet convinced them of the truth of them.

I watched an SDA preacher on TV once, and he was preaching on the Sabbath, at the end, the alter call was for anyone who wanted to come up and receive the gift or blessing of embracing the Sabbath. Believing in the Sabbath as they do is a gift/blessing from God. But in fairness, you have Calvinist right here who would say the same, and have said the same, concerning Calvinism.

 

[salzer mtn]

The posts that savedbymercy put up is what Spurgeon called high doctrine. I think we should never forget that Christ put away all our sin's. psa 103:12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us. Isa :3:25 I, even I am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins. Isa 38:17 For thou hast cast all my sins behind thy back. Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Christ once for all. Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected forever them that are sanctified. When I am cast down because of my transgressions and I realize I am not capable of pleasing God in this vile flesh I read these blessed scriptures of promise and then Christ reminds me that He is my redemption, righteousness, sanctification, and wisdom, 1 Cor 1:30.

 

[savedbymercy]

Made us dead to the Law ! 5

Now what does this mean ? Rom 7:4

4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

If its indeed true that those who believe, were dead to the Law by the Body of Christ, again simply meaning by His Death, it means that Believers had a secret Union with Christ when He died for Our sins ! This is something that all religionists fail to understand, yet in order for Christ to have died legally for the sins of others 1 Cor 15:3, there had to be already established in the first place a legal union /bond, for that is first in importance; It had to be a Legal Ground and basis for God being able to charge Christ with sins of others in order for Him to die for them.

There had to be a preexisting condition/union, and that was established in the Eternal Purpose of God in Election before the Foundation of the World Eph 1:4, and so of Him [God the Father were we united to Christ, in Him with Legal Union 1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

Without such Union in Him, there was no basis for Him being a Kinsmen Redeemer for Redemption.

Thats why Paul wrote that He Loved and gave Himself for the Church Eph 5:25,26 which is His Body Vs 26, hence He was the Legal Head of His Body the Church, His Wife also, making it a Just cause before God, to charge His wifes sins to His account, or the sins of His Body to Him the Head !680

 

[savedbymercy]

Made us dead to the Law ! 6

Continuing with that thought of Union with Christ legally, and because of it, who and what we are as sinners by nature, the children of wrath as others Eph 2:3, that was crucified with Christ, so we read Rom 6:6

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

In the original, it would better read, " Knowing this, that our old man was [past tense] crucified with Him "

Thats True only because of being in Union with Him. The original word for crucified systauroō actually means:

I.to crucify along with the word with denoting a Union association ! Thats Union with Christ !

Paul says the same thing of himself personally, though as just seen, it applys to all for whom He died Gal 2:20

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Again, thats past tense, was crucified with Christ ! And notice, out of that and nevertheless he lived, out of being given Life from Christ !

Hence, it is no such thing as Christ dying for our sins without us already in the purpose of God being in Union with Him, those in 1 Cor 15:3

For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

The Ones " Our sins" applies to, every last one of them had to be in Union with Christ at the Time He died for their sins ! BTW that is an Election Union !

 

[salzer mtn]

Here is a scripture to prove the elect had union with Christ before they were regenerated. Eph 2: 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, ( by grace ye are saved ) This next scripture tells us that when Christ came out of the tomb we were in Him, and we are actually in Him right now by vital union in heaven. Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up TOGETHER, and made us sit together in heavenly places IN Christ Jesus. The seventh verse proves the point because it says, that in the ages to come, meaning in the future he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

 

[thatbrian]

I guess I never believed I was sanctified by following the Law. I was born-again at a young age (10) and afterward became aware pretty quickly that following the Law just wasn't a reality, so I quickly became a believer of faith alone. When the Lord called me to study His Word at the age of 33, I opposed legalism from the start, so I guess becoming reformed would not make me feel any freer than I have always felt in Christ. Please do not take this as though I believe I am free to sin, only free from the penalty of sin. Sin, even in a believers life, has consequences, even though one of those consequences is not a loss of salvation.

I'm glad to hear that you didn't get weighed down by the same thing I did. For me, it was a learning experience. It brought me to the end of myself, and the less I relied on self, the more I relied on Christ. Having said that, I wish that the experience could have been avoided, as in your case.

Again, you are fortunate to have sidestepped it, because, in my experience, the Galatian's error is still alive and well in the church today.

 

[savedbymercy]

Made us dead to the Law ! 7

Now in light of the pre-existing union, a union all must have had with Him, if indeed He did die for them, for their sins, He accepted upon Himself the wages of their sins, which was death Rom 6:23, their debt of sin has been paid in full, He paid the debt in total for all of the Old man they are from the cradle to the grave Rom 6:6

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

That Old Man covers all what they are by nature, children of wrath Eph 2:3 and as a result they are freed or Justified from sin, which is but another way of saying they were dead to the Law by the Body of Christ, Lets look at Rom 6:7

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

He that is dead here means, he that was crucified with Christ, or died with Christ, that person, whomsoever they may be, is freed from sin.

That word freed is the greek word dikaioó:

I make righteous, defend the cause of, plead for the righteousness (innocence) of, acquit, justify; hence: I regard as righteous.

So he that died with Christ, he that is dead, is acquitted, justified from sin, and regarded as righteous ! See Rom 5:19 also !

So to be dead to the Law by the Body of Christ, means equally to be made righteous, justified, and acquitted before they believe a thing, even before they know anything about it, for its a mystery to them. Its even true of them before they are born into that sin nature whereby they become by nature children of wrath like others Eph 2:3, for that is nothing but that old man which had been already crucified with Christ Rom 6:6 !

 

[savedbymercy]

Here is a scripture to prove the elect had union with Christ before they were regenerated. Eph 2: 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, ( by grace ye are saved ) This next scripture tells us that when Christ came out of the tomb we were in Him, and we are actually in Him right now by vital union in heaven. Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up TOGETHER, and made us sit together in heavenly places IN Christ Jesus. The seventh verse proves the point because it says, that in the ages to come, meaning in the future he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

Yes indeed, thats why they are regenerated, due to their Union with Christ in the Heavenlies, that is how and why they are Born from above Jn 3:3

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

The word AGAIN is the greek word anóthen and means:

(a) from above, from heaven, (b) from the beginning, from their origin (source), from of old, (c) again, anew.

So unless a person is born from above he cannot see the Kingdom !

Now why is this so ? Well the word above states where they are already together with Christ Col 3:1

If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

And thats where they are positionally already with Christ risen as stated Eph 2:6

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

And so thats why they must be born from above where they already exist in Union with Christ on the Right Hand of God !