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Mainstream Baptist leaders credit ‘freedom’ for keeping them Baptist

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by gb93433, Feb 26, 2007.

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  1. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    Good point. I think Jesus would have been labeled a liberal by the Sadducees as well.
     
    #21 gb93433, Feb 27, 2007
  2. kmichael

    kmichael New Member

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    Everybody's got an angle don't they. Anyway....if you don't mind hurrying up we need Jesus back in the dressing room.....the Lutherans need to get him in costume to prove their point....they have him reserved for tomorrow. We gotta keep him moving.....i think we double booked Jesus for this weekend.....the CBF AND MCC have Him reserved for Friday Saturday AND Sunday.......at least He won't have to change costumes.


    If you want to toss around Jesus to prove YOUR religion sign up today!
     
    #22 kmichael, Feb 27, 2007
  3. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    Just the facts.
     
    #23 gb93433, Feb 27, 2007
  4. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4 New Member

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    The passage I quoted was Hebrews 13:7. The passage you describe is not Hebrews 13:7
     
    #24 2 Timothy2:1-4, Feb 27, 2007
  5. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4 New Member

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    Nice redirect to avoid the topic. However Baptist distincitves are not defined as not having any standards. We clearly have standards else other denoms would not cringe at being called a baptist. And Jesus was never called irreligious or liberal. The jews problem with Jesus wasnt that he didnt do things their way, their problem was that he was the Messiah and was of God.


    Pharissee and jews are the liberals favorite pejorative.
     
    #25 2 Timothy2:1-4, Feb 27, 2007
  6. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    I don't like overusing the conservative/liberal construct when talking about the Pharisees and Jesus.

    Let's be honest. It's a meaningless dichotomy. The terms change meaning depending on frequently changing context, so we can never "nail the jello to the wall."

    If we could enter the Pharisees, Jesus, and the United Church of Christ into the same context, even if you arrive at the conclusion that the Pharisees were conservative, and Jesus was liberal, you'd be forced to say that the United Church of Christ is so far to the left that they've circled the globe twice.
     
    #26 StefanM, Feb 28, 2007
  7. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4 New Member

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    It makes such a nice pejorative.:thumbs:
     
    #27 2 Timothy2:1-4, Feb 28, 2007
  8. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    He was accused of having a demon, being insane, and a blamphemer... They also accused Him of wanting to destroy the temple (their religious institution) and trying to stir up the people against Rome. On a number of occasions, Jesus was condemned for allegedly violating the Sabbath because He went with the spirit of the Law (a more "liberal" reading) rather than the letter of the Law (a very conservative reading).
     
    #28 Baptist Believer, Feb 28, 2007
  9. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4 New Member

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    The very poor attemt to to tie Jesus into the liberal agenda is a failure. Jesus was quite conservative when he said the no man can come to the Father but by Him. If Nicodemus was to see the kingdom of God he must be born again. The disciples found His teachings hard in John 6:60. He preached a literal judgment and a literal hell. Nothing liberal about that.
     
    #29 2 Timothy2:1-4, Feb 28, 2007
  10. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    Good. because that wasn't my intent. I just wanted to point out that Jesus was falsely labeled all sorts of things that had little to do with reality. In the same way, too many people throw around the word "liberal" when they simply mean "someone I disagree with."

    The examples you gave are not "conservative", they are true. That's not to say that truth and conservatism are opposites, but you seem to use "conservative" to mean "true" and "liberal" to mean false.

    • A person who is a conservative wants to "conserve" the things we are doing now.
    • A person who is a liberal stresses "liberty" over more restrictive traditional understandings.
     
    #30 Baptist Believer, Feb 28, 2007
  11. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    The majority of people are anti-Baptist because Baptists are being loud mouthed and anti-everything else. They are seen as snake charmers on TV. They are seen as anti-Catholic. Most people could not tell you one thing that Baptists stand for. However they know what they stand against. They also listen to the news and read the newspapers.

    While looking at James 1:22 consider the following questions.

    The largest scandal committed by a religious organization was the Baptist Foundation of Arizona. Were those folks conservatives or liberals?

    Are the preachers in the SBC who are molesting children and embezzling money conservatives or liberals?

    The trustees who fired Dr. Dilday and lied to the press were they liberals or conservatives?

    Was the chairman of the trustees at SWBTS when Dr. Dilday was fired and later caught shacking up with two ladies in his church a liberal or conservative.
     
    #31 gb93433, Feb 28, 2007
  12. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4 New Member

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    Wow! Another redirect but with an accusation that liberlas are more moral or righteous than conservatives? How bold but ungodly. The assertion that people do not know what Baptists stand for but they know what they stand against is a story with little to no evidence. Nice try though.
     
    #32 2 Timothy2:1-4, Feb 28, 2007
  13. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4 New Member

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    You certainly dont know that about me.


    The examples I gave being true are also conservative. For they have been believed historically since God first spoke them. And since they are true should we give room for "liberty" in them or should we hold to the historical, conservative standard? Should we conserve them?
     
    #33 2 Timothy2:1-4, Feb 28, 2007
  14. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    I am talking about the public.

    Go out in the street and talk with people so at least you have some first hand knowledge. It would help if you were to start sharing your faith and talk with at least 2,000.
    Anyone in the SBC knows how the majority of Southern Baptist Churches in the south began. They began by fighting and then starting another church and then fighting again and starting another church. That form of godliness is observable to the world.
     
    #34 gb93433, Feb 28, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 28, 2007
  15. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    Where did I make any accusation that "liberlas are more moral or righteous than conservatives"? Did I not just state some facts? How did I go outside of what James wrote and Jesus addressed?

    It seems that you missed the point I was trying to make. In the Bible I just can't find any place where Jesus addressed political factions but rather goes to the point of what God wanted not what some political party wanted or some religious group claims to have stood for. It is arrogant for anyone to think they are so righteous that they of the right party and being of the right party is reason to be proud.

    You failed to answer any of the questions I asked earlier.

    While looking at James 1:22 consider the following questions.

    The largest scandal committed by a religious organization was the Baptist Foundation of Arizona. Were those folks conservatives or liberals?

    Are the preachers in the SBC who are molesting children and embezzling money conservatives or liberals?

    The trustees who fired Dr. Dilday and lied to the press were they liberals or conservatives?

    Was the chairman of the trustees at SWBTS when Dr. Dilday was fired and later caught shacking up with two ladies in his church a liberal or conservative?

    Sometime read the story about what Balackaby said at http://www.swbts.edu/publicrelations/story.cfm?id=41DD867E-F4F3-67D4-025B82432F550063
     
    #35 gb93433, Feb 28, 2007
  16. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4 New Member

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    Hebrews 13:7 in no way teaches this. It doesnt even come close.
     
    #36 2 Timothy2:1-4, Feb 28, 2007
  17. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4 New Member

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    So what. You named some failures of people who are conservative. BY the way the bigest religious scandal of our time rests not in the Baptist denomination but in the Catholic church.

    How do you jump from the false notion that the key Baptist distinction is to agree on nothing to a discussion on Jesus' view on politics. One opic at a time please.
     
    #37 2 Timothy2:1-4, Feb 28, 2007
  18. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    Of course it doesn't. It was written a few thousand years ago. But the same rule principle applies to those who are false and those who are genuine.
     
    #38 gb93433, Feb 28, 2007
  19. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    Jesus said no one comes to the Father except by himself, Jesus. In the eyes of liberals this is an extremely bigoted narrow view. Yes or No-- is Jesus required to come to God the Father? IOW if you are not a believer in Jesus Christ, will you be damned?
     
    #39 Alcott, Feb 28, 2007
  20. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    I don't ever recall writing about agreeing on nothing.

    When Jesus called He pointed people to God and a life of obedience not a political party or creed. Creeds and political parties are the work of man. Read 1 Cor and see what Paul writes about the parties.

    Being called a conservative should be an insult to any Christian. Jesus called believers to radical Christianity not being a conservative. Being a conservative is the very reason so many churches in America are dead and dying. So many denominations/conventions have been plagued with quite a number of scandals while they predicted that once they got rid of the liberals they would grow. What happened?

    Liberals and conservative have been around since man came on the scene. However, I fail to see large masses of radical followers of God.

    Show me one person whom called to be a conservative follower? He called them to be a radical follower.

    Christ called believers to radical Christianity.
     
    #40 gb93433, Feb 28, 2007
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