Majority of US Baptist Denominations UNITING WITH ROME?

There is nothing new here. Denominations have this kind of dialog all the time and little ever comes of it. Representatives of each group meet together many times over a period years, most often in nice hotels in exotic locations, and discuss their differences. They usually develop strong bonds of friendship with one another. When there is nothing left to talk about, they will come out with some kind of joint statement that talks about where they agree and where they disagree. Most of these statements make interesting reading but are of little real value. Here is a link to a statement by the Southern Baptists and the Roman Catholics that came out in 1989. http://www.usccb.org/seia/sbrctounderstandeachother1989.shtml

 

Amen, my brother. :thumbs:

 

I think the dialog in itself is of value. Groups like Catholics and Protestants who have been at odds with each other to the extent of killing one another over differences for generations have many wounds to heal and many steps to take before meaningful agreement can be seen.

 

1. Maybe your use of drawn by the Spirit is slightly different than my understanding of it.

2. Can a person be saved and still attend the Catholic church?

 

Then I hope you are encouraging Jesus' plan for unity in the Church with those who you believe do not encourage the worship of idols.

 

2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

2 Corinthians 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

2 Corinthians 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

2 Corinthians 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

Scripture tells Christians (and I don't believe Catholics are Christians) not to yoke with unbelievers. We are commanded to be separate. Our unity is to be in the Spirit, not some false ecumenical unity. Certainly, we are to witness the Truth to Catholics--but not to "yoke" with them.

Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

Romans 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

 

It is all about the atonement

I think it is important to understand the basic theology of the atonement.

When we accept Jesus Christ's sacrifice for our sins, we are completely forgiven. His crucifixion atoned completely for my sins (I'll speak personally here). Hebrews tells us that He was crucified once for the sins of all and is sitting presently at the right hand of the Father.

He cannot be crucified twice for us, He cannot be crucified weekly for us. He is crucified once for us. That suffering and death on the cross was completely sufficient to forgive all my sins...past, present and future.

This is not the same atonement offered in the Catholic Church.

You can even think of it this way...the Catholic Church is still in a sense under the Old Covenant.....could the sacrifices in the Old Covenant save anyone? No, they could not. The sacrificial system was a shadow and type, pointing to Christ.

Under the Old Covenant, if you sinned once, you would bring an offering to the levitical priest. He would sacrifice the bird or mammal and your sin would be covered. Sin again, bring the sacrifice again. And on and on.

This is the same in the Catholic Church. Confessionals are open on Saturday. You go into the confessional box and confess your sins for that week. The priest gives you a "penance"...usually to say so many prayers. Your sins are then covered by those prayers.

Christ is sacrificed each week at the mass (or daily, if you attend daily mass). The Catholic Church chooses to intepret the last supper as Christ saying He was going to always be offered each time bread is broken and wine offered. This is called transubstantiation...the bread becomes His body, the wine His blood.

Catholics believe they need to receive that communion host in order to continue to be saved. They have no assurance of faith.

Even after spending their lives giving something up for lent, going to confession, taking communion, each Catholic (except for the priest/bishop and Pope) knows that when they die, they will still have to spend time in a horrid place called purgatory. Why? So they suffer to atone for their sins. They just don't have a biblical atonement.

(The priest/bishop/Pope does not have to spend time in purgatory. According to the Catholic Catechism, these men are of the order of Melchizedek and, since they stand in place of Christ, they go right to heaven...never through purgatory.)

Anyone here can purchase the Catechism of the Catholic Church. We have and have studied it extensively. After reading the theology of the Catholic Church, you will understand why they do not accept Jesus' atonement. The Catholic Church must come into the New Covenant.

A person cannot be saved and continue to remain in the Catholic Church. Jesus promised He would send us the Spirit of Truth...the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit sanctifies us throughout our lives. He convicts us to our sins...we cannot remain in sin and be indwelt by the Holy Spirit. There is so much sin involved in remaining in the Catholic Church...the idolatry, the false atonement, the false priesthood, the praying to the dead (necromancy). I believe God at His Word...He sanctifies His children.

With the exception of Naaman, who begged for the prophet to understand why he would be going into a temple of Baal to aid his master, I do not believe there is one single example in Scripture where God left His people whom He calls...left them to continue in false religion. Our examples from Lot to Israel to the churches in Revelation appear to support God's desire for us to be separate from sin.

 

For what purpose is this understanding ? There can be no unity between two opposing doctrines, without compromise, and compromise is frowned upon by the Word of God. Remember "be ye not unequally yoked with unbelievers" ?

We have no common witness with Roman Catholicism. That's just like saying we have a common witness with Mormonism, or with Islam, because we are all "worshipping the same God", which we are not.
The call for unification was issued to those who are God's people, and have been called out as a local, visible group with complete autonomy from one another and resposibility only to the One True God. Check out the Roman Catholic church. Do they meet those criteria ?

It is unbelievable that anyone can be a true believer in Jesus Christ, and remain within a system that holds high such mortals as Mary next to Jesus Christ, calling her co-Redemptrix and Mediatrix in clear violation of what the Bible teaches about the Lord. I think that God has His children in any theological system but I also believe that once they hear sound teaching they will leave that system and join themselves to others of like faith. The same goes for God's elect children who grew up under Islam, or JW, or Mormonism, or even communism.
When they hear the effectual call of the Spirit upon regeneration, they will become restless and leave the false system they are in and look for sound teaching.

And I speak from experience and observation.
I was born, bred, and raised a Roman Catholic, went to school most of my childhood and adult life in Roman Catholic schools.
I have also seen Roman Catholics who suddenly rebelled against idolatry, papal authority, and the likes, and leave the Roman Catholic system and look for other teachings.
Most of them became Baptists, some went to other teachings.

 

2 Corinthians 6:14-18 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

 

Peace, Peace-- there is no Peace

"...when they shall say peace and safety, then shall come sudden destruction."

The Prince of Peace said: "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household..."

Will our religion pass the paradigm of Mt. Ch. 10?

Ecumenism is alive and well. Dec. 25 is a good example.

Behold the Bridegroom cometh.

Even so, come Lord Jesus.

Selah,

Bro. James

 

Johann von Staupitz and Martin Luther were and did.

Ed

 

Welcome to the Baptist Board to both Jillian and Beth.



BTW, Jillian, I actually referenced you once, although not by name, when I saw you were 'lurking' and on-line, but had never made a post, up until that time, so your welcome is actually quite a bit belated.

Ed