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Man head of house?

Is the man supposed to be the head of the house

  • Yes, the man ought to be head of the house

    Votes: 22 88.0%
  • No, the woman should have as much authority as he has

    Votes: 3 12.0%

  • Total voters
    25
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saturneptune

New Member
Exactly. Men are to love their wives the way Christ loved the church. Having a know-it-all "I'm the boss" attitude" is not what Christ demonstrated.

I find it interesting that men with this arrogant, dictator-like attitude always emphasize wives submitting first. Christ loved us FIRST, not the other way around. A man who loves his wife like Jesus loves the church will not even need to mention submission to her--let alone worry about what other women are doing.

ABC,

Take note, this is a picture taken this morning of my wife serving me breakfast in bed. Notice I did her a favor by letting her get further than 100 feet from the kitchen sink.
vote-71831520500.jpeg


LOL, just kidding. I have been married 37 years and know better. That last statement of yours says it all.
 

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
ABC,

Take note, this is a picture taken this morning of my wife serving me breakfast in bed. Notice I did her a favor by letting her get further than 100 feet from the kitchen sink.
vote-71831520500.jpeg


LOL, just kidding. I have been married 37 years and know better. That last statement of yours says it all.

Funny:laugh::thumbsup:
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
I think that the man is supposed to be the head of the house, but I'll ask my wife when she gets back just to make sure.
 

sag38

Active Member
"but I have the final say" - really, how often does a final say situation come up?It just sounds like empty rhetoric to me. What kind of husband will force his wife to do something she doesn't want to do? What kind of wife will do something she doesn't think is right just because her husband said so? That doesn't sound or look like Jesus at all.

My experience is that men who need to have the final say are the ones that are the most insecure.

I love how men find the wives submit to husbands verse and somehow miss the submit to everyone verse right before it. Ephesians 5:21

Yeah, and I have the little wife bear foot and pregnant in the kitchen. You sir are an " ."
 

abcgrad94

Active Member
Interesting, which post was that?
Post 21 is an example. Aaron's comment about letting women "call the shots" is another. Why are they so concerned with who's the "boss?" When a man truly loves the way Christ loved the church, he won't need to worry about who "calls the shots." There's no need to emphasize submission from the wife. A man who truly loves like Christ will have the respect of his wife without demanding it.
 

Luke2427

Active Member
Spin it? Really Luke? I know we differ regarding our soteriology, but we don't have to carry that difference into other discussions.

If you honestly think loving someone doesn't involve serving them and submitting yourself then I'd dare to say you haven't ever really loved anyone. Sorry if that offends you but I say it in love as one man to another. Maybe its just that your view of "submission" and/or "love" is different than mine and we really are much closer than we think on this issue. I pray that is the case for your sake, and your wife's...

We are to love our wives like Christ loved the church and we know Christ served the church and submitted himself even unto death for her...how much more submissive can one be than Christ? The LEAST, the MOST SUBMISSIVE, is the GREATEST in God's kingdom, Luke. The one who serves the most, gives up his own desires in order to meet the desires of others the most, is the leader...the true biblical leader.

You don't get to cherry pick the facets of Christ's relationship to the church that you are going to use to illustrate how we should "serve" our wives.

He did not ASK the church whether or not he should go to the cross.

Those allowed to be part of the church get in it by confessing Christ as Lord- and that is something they do for the rest of their lives daily calling their Husband Lord.

Sarah did this too. Does your wife?

I'm not even saying that wives should have to call their husbands Lord. I don't demand that of my wife, but I am pointing out to you that you are cherry picking and applying biblical anecdotes arbitrarily and to suit you.

I want you to care more about what the Bible ACTUALLY teaches than being thought of as "in touch" or in clamoring for affirmation or whatever it is you are trying to do in the above post.
 

Luke2427

Active Member
If you in any way actually think that a marriage is in any way fitting of the analogy of a brain sturgeon and a patient...(i.e. you, the expert trained doctor, as the husband, and your wife, the uneducated needy patient), then I honestly feel sorry for your spouse. I cannot think of a single time in my marriage that approaching my wife as the "expert know-it-all" would be healthy. Sorry, maybe that is not the way you meant it, but its the way it sounds to me coming from someone who I know has a very 'strong' personality like yourself.

Biblical authority comes from serving and loving, not from ruling, dictating or a I'm 'calling the shots' attitude.

It's silly for you to quote calling the shots as if I was the one who introduced that phrase and as if you were NOT the one to initially use it.

You abused the anecdote I used to suit some "Hey look at me, vote for me, affirm me, join with me" fancy of yours. And you know you abused the anecdote to suit you.

And let me say this, I don't think people fall for that quite as much as you think they do.
 

Luke2427

Active Member
It seems like everyone is talking past each other to some degree. I don't think anyone is saying that a man shouldn't lead the home. At least I'm not. I'm saying a man shouldn't rule the home. He most certainly should lead it. The question is how does one lead as Christ did?

He served. He submitted himself even to death on a cross. He wanted the cup to pass from him, but submitted his own desires for the sake of his bride. He submitted so much that he LET them drive nails into his hands. What more submissive thing can a person do than lay down their own lives!?!

The greatest leaders are those who are the greatest at submission. To call someone to submission is to call them to greatness. Once you see submission and servanthood as 'GREAT' it turns this discussion up on its head, because then its not about who is in charge, or who is calling the shots...it is about who is serving the other. Who is willingly giving up their own rights, desires, and wants to help the other? That is the greatest leader. Too often the wife is the greatest in the marriage relationship because she is the best servant, the best submitter, the best lover of the two. That was true in my marriage for years, but now I give my wife a run for her money at serving and loving her as I should have been doing from the beginning. In my pride and arrogance I actually used to think leading was taking charge and making decision while she took care of me. I could not have been more wrong and it almost cost me my marriage. After being broken...I mean really broken God began to teach me what love really looks like...what leadership really looks like....and what a real man really is.

And you have thus made the woman's biblical duty the man's and the man's biblical duty the woman's.


There is what the BIBLE says, and then there is what Skandelon is saying here.

In case someone does not see that clearly I'll explain a bit further.

There is this politically correct way for Christians to talk about male and female roles. What they do is EXACTLY what Skandelon does here. They know this age is RABIDLY against male authority or strength in every way. So to make themselves more palatable to today's culture and to women in the church who do not like to take the moniker of "weaker vessel" and do not like to yield to male leadership whatsoever, they SPIN the terms.

And when they get DONE spinning them they have turned them LITERALLY 180 degrees. They spin the terms until "submit" means to expect to get your way and "rule" means to completely abdicate the rule your role bears.

And they do this in a sneeky, tricky, politically savvy kind of way. They take a REAL BIBLICAL TRUTH like "the greatest among you shall be your servant" and they run with it. But they run WAY past what it ACTUALLY means.

The great servitude that Christ calls for... listen to this... has NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH ABDICATING YOUR AUTHORITY. It means that while you have every ounce of authority that you are supposed to have, you still have the kind of humility and selfless care for those under your authority that means you are willing to wash their feet and lay down your life for them.

Jesus was far MORE RULER over his disciples to whom he said that than any husband will ever be over his wife. He did not consult with them about which town they should go to next or about any other such thing. He told them what to do and he expected them to do it. BUT WHILE HAVING FULL AUTHORITY HE LOVED THEM. He cared about their pains and sorrows. And he, being their very LORD AND MASTER died for them.

But Skandelon, who always sounds to me like he is running for Baptistboard office on here and always sounds like he is saying the things that will GET people to agree with him, has totally twisted what "servitude" means in the Bible.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Jerome

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
John Yates, Council Member of The Gospel Coalition:

http://www.tfcanglican.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=181318&programId=113346

Ephesians 5:21-33

Christ – God’s very Son – made himself lower than all of us. This putting others first is Christ likeness at its most surprising. This is submission – mutual submission.
Then, also, to get the context right, we need to know that many non-believers of the day were very suspicious of the Christians; they feared they were upsetting the social order, that all of Christ’s teaching about equality in the sight of God, and Christ’s instruction that our relationship to God must come before any other relationship, would cause slaves to rebel, and cause wives to disrespect their husbands. There was much about the social order of that day that was frankly awful, and the Gospel over time did create great tensions between how things were and how things ought to be. It was this same Paul who had written to the Galatians that, “in Christ, you are all sons of God the father… there is neither Jew nor Greek, neither slave nor free, neither male nor female” i.e. none is better than the other. None higher – all are one in Christ. And of course, all mixed freely and equally in the Church.
Paul certainly had these concerns in mind, but he didn’t want anyone to think he was inciting a rebellion. This could be one reason why he re-emphasizes the word about submitting, to the wives first, in 5:23, where he says, “wives are to be submissive to their husbands in everything.”
Perhaps some of the wives in the Ephesus church were so overjoyed at their new status and elevated stature in Christ, that they needed particularly to be reminded about being submissive, but we do know the verse has been scandalously misused and abused over the years to teach that husbands are the boss, husbands are always right, and wives must be submissive to whatever their husbands want. NO, Christ is the boss, for a Christian, “husbands are often wrong,” and no wife must ever agree to do anything, however much her husband wants it, if it is not pleasing to God. Don’t misunderstand the verse – it must be seen in the greater context of mutual submission. We submit to Christ and we submit to one another.
So, we have the context; now let’s get the concept right about the marriage relationship, because the apostle gives us wonderful truth, marvelous guidance here. There is a fundamental teaching here about marriage. Whenever Jesus talked about marriage, he quoted Genesis 2:24, and here Paul quotes it also. This is marriage, he says: you leave your parents, you commit yourself to one another in the presence of God, enter into a permanent, unconditional covenant, and then you come together physically, and something new results – it’s called “one flesh.”
 

Luke2427

Active Member
John Yates, Council Member of The Gospel Coalition:

http://www.tfcanglican.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=181318&programId=113346

Ephesians 5:21-33

Mary Poppins is a 1964 musical film starring Julie Andrews, Dick Van Dyke, David Tomlinson, and Glynis Johns, produced by Walt Disney, and loosely based on the Mary Poppins books series by P. L. Travers. The film was directed by Robert Stevenson and written by Bill Walsh and Don DaGradi, with songs by the Sherman Brothers. It was shot at the Walt Disney Studios in Burbank, California.

Julie Andrews won the Academy Award for Best Actress for her performance as Mary Poppins and the film also won Oscars for Best Film Editing, Original Music Score, Best Song for "Chim Chim Cher-ee" and Best Visual Effects, and received a total of 13 nominations, an unsurpassed record for any other film released by the Walt Disney Studios.

___________________
 

Skandelon

<b>Moderator</b>
You don't get to cherry pick the facets of Christ's relationship to the church that you are going to use to illustrate how we should "serve" our wives.

He did not ASK the church whether or not he should go to the cross.

Those allowed to be part of the church get in it by confessing Christ as Lord- and that is something they do for the rest of their lives daily calling their Husband Lord.

Sarah did this too. Does your wife?

I'm not even saying that wives should have to call their husbands Lord. I don't demand that of my wife, but I am pointing out to you that you are cherry picking and applying biblical anecdotes arbitrarily and to suit you.

I want you to care more about what the Bible ACTUALLY teaches than being thought of as "in touch" or in clamoring for affirmation or whatever it is you are trying to do in the above post.
Christ wanted to be a friend not a master, according to his words in John 15:15. True love drives out fear and obligation in a relationship which is true not only in our relationship with God, but should be true in our relationships with each other.

So, I'm not cherry picking anything, nor am I 'clamoring for affirmation.' I'm telling you what I believe the bible teaches and what I've learned from experience in my own marriage. I was a lot like you appear to be Luke, believe it or not, but God broke me of that way of thinking. You may not be at a place you are ready to hear that, but I feel like it should be said anyway.
 

Skandelon

<b>Moderator</b>
But Skandelon, who always sounds to me like he is running for Baptistboard office on here and always sounds like he is saying the things that will GET people to agree with him, has totally twisted what "servitude" means in the Bible.

Ad Hominem: Turn the attention to the person rather than the topic. This is typically a tactic used when one feels they are losing regarding the subject matter at hand.

Luke, I couldn't care one small iota about what others think of me on this forum regarding my view of marriage and male leadership. I care what God thinks and my wife thinks and I'm simply sharing from my heart what I had to learn the hard way.

If you are married to a woman who loves Jesus you will not have to tell her to submit. You simply have to lead by example by submitting yourself to her, loving her, serving her and leading like Christ lead....as a friend, not a ruler. With a hand of love, not pulling out 'I'm the head of this house and have authority over you' card. It's TYPICALLY not needed if you are both in submission to Christ and the man is leading by example.
 

Luke2427

Active Member
Ad Hominem: Turn the attention to the person rather than the topic. This is typically a tactic used when one feels they are losing regarding the subject matter at hand.

Luke, I couldn't care one small iota about what others think of me on this forum regarding my view of marriage and male leadership. I care what God thinks and my wife thinks and I'm simply sharing from my heart what I had to learn the hard way.

If you are married to a woman who loves Jesus you will not have to tell her to submit. You simply have to lead by example by submitting yourself to her, loving her, serving her and leading like Christ lead....as a friend, not a ruler. With a hand of love, not pulling out 'I'm the head of this house and have authority over you' card. It's TYPICALLY not needed if you are both in submission to Christ and the man is leading by example.

And you cherry pick what you want to respond to as well. There was a whole lot in that post that you did not respond to which I think already addresses sufficiently your post here.
 
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