Man head of house?

[convicted1]

Christ wanted to be a friend not a master, according to his words in John 15:15. True love drives out fear and obligation in a relationship which is true not only in our relationship with God, but should be true in our relationships with each other.

So, I'm not cherry picking anything, nor am I 'clamoring for affirmation.' I'm telling you what I believe the bible teaches and what I've learned from experience in my own marriage. I was a lot like you appear to be Luke, believe it or not, but God broke me of that way of thinking. You may not be at a place you are ready to hear that, but I feel like it should be said anyway.

There's more to it than just Christ being our friend. There's allegories of Father/son, Groom/bride, Master/slave, Teacher/pupil, Brother/younger brother, used to describe our relationship with God.

 

[convicted1]

One time on The Honeymooners, Ralph was talking with Morton about him being the king of his castle. Morton told Ralph he had just told Trixie the same thing. Ralph then asked him what happened. To which he replied, "What'd you expect? She crowned me!" :laugh: :laugh:

 

[Skandelon]

There's more to it than just Christ being our friend. There's allegories of Father/son, Groom/bride, Master/slave, Teacher/pupil, Brother/younger brother, used to describe our relationship with God.

I would agree with all of them, but the emboldened one above (master/slave) was specifically and unequivocally renounced by Jesus' own teaching. He doesn't ultimately want our relationship to stay in fear, obligation, law and shame. He wants it to mature into love, passion and a romantic like exciting adventure. This truth is better caught than taught...better experienced than explained, yet here I am trying to teach it and explain it. I'm just saying that from my experience the former may be where the relationship begins, but don't settle for that. It really can be much better.

 

[Skandelon]

And you cherry pick what you want to respond to as well. There was a whole lot in that post that you did not respond to which I think already addresses sufficiently your post here.

And I also had more than that one reply and you neglected to answer it, so...I guess we are even?

 

[Aaron]

Christ wanted to be a friend not a master, according to his words in John 15:15.

That is a heresy.

 

[Skandelon]

Christ wanted to be a friend not a master, according to his words in John 15:15.

That is a heresy.

I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master's business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. - Jesus​

That is the first time I've ever heard someone call what Jesus said a heresy.

 

[JonC]

I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master's business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. - Jesus​

That is the first time I've ever heard someone call what Jesus said a heresy.

Really? That's the first time? Start a thread on "repent and believe" and I bet it'll happen again. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[DocTrinsoGrace]

That is a heresy.

That happens a lot when Scripture is taken out of context.

 

[Gina B]

Man has been the head of the household since Eve gave him the fruit and he ate.

Maybe she was just trying to serve him breakfast in bed.

HA!

BTW, treat a woman right and she'll WANT to serve you breakfast in bed!

It's interesting to look at how believers in Christ treated him. They WANTED to take care of him, follow him, defend him, and learn from him.
I'm actually pretty amazed sometimes with my own husband at what I consider a joy instead of a chore, how things I'd have laughed at while single as being silly or "subservient" jobs in a marriage are things I want to do for him because I appreciate him.
Leadership - sometimes it is just the little things. One example I can think of is one time when I was just tired and didn't really have an excuse not to go to services, but after being single so long, nobody ever really told me when to go or not to go. LOL I wasn't used to that, and didn't really think about it, I just one day "I'm not going today." He asked why, it kind of took me by surprise. I explained that I just didn't really feel like it and he quoted scripture to me and asked me about those verses and what they meant.

He wasn't being mean or saying "Get dressed, you're going." He was pointing out that it wasn't a good idea to forsake the assembly and that I didn't have a really good excuse going on, and he was right. You know how happy it made me to have someone in my life to be able to do that for me, and in that manner?
If he would have done it in a jerky way I'd probably have responded in kind and then some, which wouldn't have ended well for either of us. But he was sweet and...well, right. Can't argue with that!

I think I'd call that spiritual leadership, small thing that it was. He was looking out for me in that way. Because he did it right, it made it easy to respond to and made my respect for him grow.

 

[Luke2427]

Maybe she was just trying to serve him breakfast in bed.

HA!

BTW, treat a woman right and she'll WANT to serve you breakfast in bed!

.

So all women just WANT to submit to a good man, huh?

Does that work for men too? Do all men just WANT to be loving to a good woman?

I've been in this thing long enough to see numerous fat, lazy women sit on the couch all day watching tv while good men worked 50 and 60 hours a week to provide for them and those men have to come home to nasty houses and cook their own meals and deal with their wives whining and complaining all night.

The biggest fattest lie out there today is that if a man would do his part a woman would automatically WANT TO do hers.

That implies that MEN are the problem.

Such a statement sounds bad coming from a woman.

We women would be perfect wives if it were not for men.

What sexism!

 

[Winman]

So all women just WANT to submit to a good man, huh?

Does that work for men too? Do all men just WANT to be loving to a good woman?

I've been in this thing long enough to see numerous fat, lazy women sit on the couch all day watching tv while good men worked 50 and 60 hours a week to provide for them and those men have to come home to nasty houses and cook their own meals and deal with their wives whining and complaining all night.

The biggest fattest lie out there today is that if a man would do his part a woman would automatically WANT TO do hers.

That implies that MEN are the problem.

Such a statement sounds bad coming from a woman.

We women would be perfect wives if it were not for men.

What sexism!

Boy Luke, you really know how to talk to the ladies. :thumbs:

 

[Gina B]

So all women just WANT to submit to a good man, huh?

Does that work for men too? Do all men just WANT to be loving to a good woman?

I've been in this thing long enough to see numerous fat, lazy women sit on the couch all day watching tv while good men worked 50 and 60 hours a week to provide for them and those men have to come home to nasty houses and cook their own meals and deal with their wives whining and complaining all night.

The biggest fattest lie out there today is that if a man would do his part a woman would automatically WANT TO do hers.

That implies that MEN are the problem.

Such a statement sounds bad coming from a woman.

We women would be perfect wives if it were not for men.

What sexism!

While I can't imagine a BELIEVING woman that is following Christ that would act as you have described, I'm sure it happens. I can understand how at first thought, it can sound sexist and the concept can even anger people.

But yes, I believe that when a believing man is truly following a Christ-like example, a believing wife will want to submit to him and yes, I believe that believing men will want to be loving to a good woman.
There are always going to be exceptions as long as there is sin, as long as there are addictions, as long as human nature exists, and there are always going to be rough times in life and marriages that go through hardships.

I personally spent a lot of time very hurt and very mocking of the idea of submission. I was an unbeliever when I first married another unbeliever. I came to Christ. He didn't. I did quite a bit of work. It didn't work. Nothing was good enough, never could be submissive enough...never perfect enough.
I never in a million years thought I would remarry, nor did I want to and the idea of submission? :laugh:

All I can say is that the Bible is true. It's not sexist. It says what it says and when two people live it, it works. It just does.

It's just that it really takes two. Not one. If one spouse isn't willing to do so, it sure makes it rough on the other one.
Even with two, it doesn't mean constant springtime and birds singing and roses. LOL I won't say there weren't times at first when I didn't bite my tongue a lot or pray for myself to be quiet so I could think before I spoke or that there aren't times when I don't have to stop and check myself and I'm sure he does the same sometimes.
That should be true in any relationship though, whether you're talking to a spouse, your child, your boss, your co-worker, or anyone else. We're human and our first reaction in a stressful situation or conversation often isn't the best one to go with. There just tends to be a lot more deepness with a spouse, a lot more hurt to work through since you're in it together for life, so naturally you go through more and have more to work through, so more depth ends up if you take the time to work through hardship for the sake of peace and love and develop to those deeper levels.
And when that deepness is built, layer upon layer, on a foundation of trust and belief in Christ, it becomes a pattern. It becomes so much easier, that trust is there. If G-d is my Father and my husband is following him, what reason would I have to not trust my husband's leading? How can that be sexist? It doesn't FEEL sexist, and I've been accused of being a rabid feminist by quite a few Baptists in my time. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Skandelon]

Boy Luke, you really know how to talk to the ladies. :thumbs:

At least he is a equal opportunity offender, because he treats men with the same distain.

Luke didn't even seem to attempt to understand Gina's point. He just jumped to an extreme conclusion and let it fly...typical.

 

[abcgrad94]

So all women just WANT to submit to a good man, huh?

Does that work for men too? Do all men just WANT to be loving to a good woman?

I've been in this thing long enough to see numerous fat, lazy women sit on the couch all day watching tv while good men worked 50 and 60 hours a week to provide for them and those men have to come home to nasty houses and cook their own meals and deal with their wives whining and complaining all night.

The biggest fattest lie out there today is that if a man would do his part a woman would automatically WANT TO do hers.

That implies that MEN are the problem.
Such a statement sounds bad coming from a woman.
We women would be perfect wives if it were not for men.
What sexism!

She never said ALL women wanted to submit, and she didn't say women would be perfect wives if it were not for men, and you know it. Instead of trying to drown out her words, why don't you actually LISTEN and debate rather than spout off?

If my dh talked to a woman the way you just did to Gina, I'd serve him breakfast in bed alright. . .humble pie filled with X-lax! That bullish behavior just screams for treatment of like kind. But guess what? My dh is loving and kind, and it prompts me to bring him and the Lord honor, so I won't say what I'm REALLY thinking about your posts in this thread.

Gina's post is right on. When a man truly loves as Christ did, that love is so powerful it can conquer the wife's stubbornest opposition.

 

[Skandelon]

She never said ALL women wanted to submit, and she didn't say women would be perfect wives if it were not for men, and you know it. Instead of trying to drown out her words, why don't you actually LISTEN and debate rather than spout off?

If my dh talked to a woman the way you just did to Gina, I'd serve him breakfast in bed alright. . .humble pie filled with X-lax! That bullish behavior just screams for treatment of like kind. But guess what? My dh is loving and kind, and it prompts me to bring him and the Lord honor, so I won't say what I'm REALLY thinking about your posts in this thread.

Gina's post is right on. When a man truly loves as Christ did, that love is so powerful it can conquer the wife's stubbornest opposition.

:thumbs:

Awesome!!!

 

[Aaron]

So all women just WANT to submit to a good man, huh?

Does that work for men too? Do all men just WANT to be loving to a good woman?

I've been in this thing long enough to see numerous fat, lazy women sit on the couch all day watching tv while good men worked 50 and 60 hours a week to provide for them and those men have to come home to nasty houses and cook their own meals and deal with their wives whining and complaining all night.

The biggest fattest lie out there today is that if a man would do his part a woman would automatically WANT TO do hers.

That implies that MEN are the problem.

Such a statement sounds bad coming from a woman.

We women would be perfect wives if it were not for men.

What sexism!

What happens when swine are given pearls?

 

[Luke2427]

What happens when swine are given pearls?

I don't understand what you mean.

 

[Skandelon]

I don't understand what you mean.

He either inferred you are a swine that received the pearls from others... (my vote)

Or he inferred that you are giving out pearls and the rest of us who disagree are the swine. I can't imagine how anyone could call what you said in that post "pearls," but Aaron sees things much differently than I do, so who knows?

 

[Aaron]

I don't understand what you mean.

I was agreeing with you. A bitchy couch potato is not transformed to a Proverbs 31 woman because her husband dotes on her.

She becomes even mouthier and more slothful.

 

[nodak]

I like my pastor's way of explaining headship.

He takes it to a military platoon. He says that the family or the platoon is to follow the one with the authority to lead.

Ah, but that means the sergeant or husband in the case of the family is the one who is to "go first."

So he is charged with the duty to be the first to pray, the first to forgive, the first to put the other person first, the first to take the shots and blow of the enemy, the first to serve, in short, he comes dead last in his own reckoning.

That is easy to follow. It is the guys that want to stay in the rear, in the trenches out of reach of the enemy and boss the platoon or family around that are out of line, not those that refuse to "follow" when "following" is no longer lining up behind the leader but being pushed forward as cannon fodder.