manifestation vs gift

[awaken]

There is no command in Scripture to defend your church. We are told, "ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints." (Jude v. 3).

I was not defending my church...I was trying to defend what was delievered to me through the Baptist church (teaching/doctrine). I could not defend it in scripture. And no one here has proven that the manifestation has ended.

I have told you over and over again where you had me saying something I did not, where you twisted my words, whether intentionally or not. (And I never said it was intentional.) In no case have you even answered me, much less apologized. Now Christ taught that if we are offended we are to go to the person an make it right (Matt. 18:15), and if someone is offended by us we are to make it right (Matt. 5:23-24). I've been obeying Christ every time you were offensive. But you have not made it right a single time. I've apologized and been apologized to quite a few times on the BB. I've never noticed you apologizing to anyone here! Do you think we are disembodied Internet spirits with no feelings?

So you want me to say I am sorry for sharing the truth?? I am sorry you got offended...but I will not change my stand on what I believe to appease you! I did not attack you personally! I just did not agree with you...and you are saying when someone does not agree with you..you get offended. Well, maybe you need to stay off the debate boards!

I've been discussing the Word. I've referred to Acts 2:6 and 1 Cor. 14:22. And I hardly think making things right is immaturity.

No, you keep turning it all back to my personal walk with the Lord...always question if it is genuine or not. WHAT DOES THE WORD SAY..

 

[awaken]

If she got healed at such a meeting, then she got healed in spite of him; not because of him.

WHo said it was because of him? She has given God the glory...and so did they!

 

[awaken]

Not everything is written in the Word of God.
Creation is written in the Word of God, and we accept it by faith. It speaks of the origin of the universe.

But what we believe is written in the Word..that is my point. I do not believe anything outside the Word of God!
[

Evolution is not written in the Word of God, and many people believe in the Big Bang theory. Since it speaks of the origin of the earth it falls outside the realm of science and within the realm of metaphysics or faith. It must be accepted by faith, just as the Bible's account of Creation. The question then becomes which theory: the Big Bang, or Biblical Creation, is more credible? We believe Creation is. Not only because science backs it up, but because God says so. We believe it by faith. It is credible. It has credibility to it.

Exactly..we did not see creation...but we believe it because it is in the Word of God! THat is what I have been trying to tell you! Faith comes by hearing the Word! Once we hear/read it..then we can act on it by faith. Before we ever see evidence of it!

Belief in Ganesh, the elephant god, has no credibility because it is a mythical god. It has no basis in history or in reality.

you lost me on this one??

The only ones required to see Christ personally are the apostles. That is why there are no apostles today. No one today has seen personally the resurrection, and therefore there are no apostles.
I know Nero lived.
I know Pilate lived.
I know the Apostle Paul lived.
And I certainly know that Christ lived and rose again from the dead. I didn't have to see him. I can't see you. Do you live? I have as much evidence that Christ rose from the dead, as I have that you are alive. I have never met you. There is technology today that could be answering my posts for me. You might be just another computer. I have no real evidence that you are who you say you are, and are a living being. I have more evidence that Christ is alive then I do that you are alive. And that is the truth!

But it still goes back to the Word of God! What is in the Word! That is what I have faith in!

No the Word of God has not established what you believe. It only established what the believers of the first century did. The Word of God established what miracles Moses did. It never promised you could do the miracles of Moses, or Jesus, or the Apostles. No such promise was ever given. It never gave you the promise of having the gifts of the Spirit. Those were promises given to NT believers, not to us who are over 2,000 years removed from those events. So no, your faith is not based on the Word of God.

you leave out to many scriptues...that is the only way you can believe that! The Holy Spirit has been manifested through me..and I have witnessed it through others. None of it was adding to or taking away from the Word of God. It was all done to edify and build up the church...just like it said in His Word. Don't you get it by now...I don't care if you believe what I live out is real or not..you not believing that (unbelief) does not take it away from me. Just like if I told you that you were not saved...would that change anything? Would you lose what you had in Christ because I do not believe you are born again? No! It would not...

I know what I have read..what I believe..and what I have experienced! It has brought me closer to God! I have fell deeper in love with Him. If what I have is of the Devil as you seem to claim...then the devil is failing in what he is out to do through it!

Your faith is based on the faith of NT believers, which is not Biblical.

How in the world did you come up with that? How can me believing in the NT believers give me what I have today! Only the Holy Spirit can do that!

 

[Revmitchell]

But it still goes back to the Word of God! What is in the Word! That is what I have faith in!

It says you have to be a witness to the resurrection of Jesus.

Act 1:22 beginning from the baptism of John until the day when he was taken up from us--one of these men must become with us a witness to his resurrection."

 

[John of Japan]

No, you keep turning it all back to my personal walk with the Lord...always question if it is genuine or not. WHAT DOES THE WORD SAY..

And once again you have twisted my words. The only thing I have questioned about your walk with God is your own stated motive for investigating the arguments of the Charismatic movement. That is certainly not always, or even often, or even occasionally.

 

[John of Japan]

So you want me to say I am sorry for sharing the truth?? I am sorry you got offended...but I will not change my stand on what I believe to appease you! I did not attack you personally! I just did not agree with you...and you are saying when someone does not agree with you..you get offended. Well, maybe you need to stay off the debate boards!

Stop twisting my words. I never said you should say you are sorry for the truth, nor even for what you believe. Go ahead and stand up for what you believe. Where you are offensive is over and over mis-stating my views (as you have done again in this very post). If you don't think that is offensive, I feel sorry for you. I have obeyed what the Lord Jesus Christ said about offenses but stating my case directly to you. Since you rejecct my words, you have not been obedient to Christ. End of story.

As for staying off the debate boards, I find most "Christian" boards ridiculous and un-Christian. But check my post number for the BB, the only one I'm on. Having been working for Christ in a Gospel-resistant country for the last 31 years, I think I've seen more than my share of offenses. And I'm still here. God gives strength.

 

[DHK]

But what we believe is written in the Word..that is my point. I do not believe anything outside the Word of God!

Yes you do. The gifts of the Holy Spirit, when looked in context of the Bible, are not for today.
There are no apostles today.
There are no unbelieving Jews today of the first century--the ones that put that crucified our Lord (Acts 2). It was for their generation, as Peter said. You don't keep in context.
You will admit that the miracles of Moses are not for today, but not the gifts of the Spirit. Both are in a different time period: the time of Moses, and the time of Jesus and the Apostles.
[quote[[ Exactly..we did not see creation...but we believe it because it is in the Word of God! THat is what I have been trying to tell you! Faith comes by hearing the Word! Once we hear/read it..then we can act on it by faith. Before we ever see evidence of it![/quote]
We see evidence of creation all around us (Psalm 19:1). It is called Intelligent Design. But we don't see any evidence of the gifts of the Spirit, especially the sign gifts. I ask you again show me evidence of the gift of healing in operation today just as Peter healed in Acts 5:16. It is not operational and has not been for the last 20 centuries. To claim that it is, then, is delusional.

you lost me on this one??

It is all about evidence. The Hindus faithfully believe in the god of Ganesh even though they have no evidence.
You faithfully believe that the gifts of the Spirit (gift of healing) are operational even though you have no evidence, has not been seen in over 20 centuries. What makes your faith any better than that of a Hindu. They also believe in their Sacred Writings, the Vedas. You are treating the Bible the same way.

But it still goes back to the Word of God! What is in the Word! That is what I have faith in!

Blind faith. Do you also believe God will speak to you through a burning bush as he did to Moses? Why not? Anything is possible with God is it not? That is your reasoning. Do not limit God!
The fact is that God limits himself. He will not speak to you through a burning bush like he did with Moses. And he does not operate through the gift of healing today, and has not for the last 20 centuries.

you leave out to many scriptues...that is the only way you can believe that!

I give you Scripture; you give me the "manifestation" of your unbiblical experience.

The Holy Spirit has been manifested through me..and I have witnessed it through others.

You can't prove that it was the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit never works contrary to his Word. Good feeling experiences are not necessarily the work of the Holy Spirit.

None of it was adding to or taking away from the Word of God. It was all done to edify and build up the church...just like it said in His Word.

His Word says that the Godly shall suffer persecution. The reason that believers don't suffer persecution is because they are not godly.

Don't you get it by now...I don't care if you believe what I live out is real or not..you not believing that (unbelief) does not take it away from me. Just like if I told you that you were not saved...would that change anything? Would you lose what you had in Christ because I do not believe you are born again? No! It would not...

Have fun! Have your experiences! Go, enjoy life! But is it of God??
I doubt it. God works different ways in different dispensations. This is not the apostolic age. The apostles have died off along with the supernatural gifts of the Spirit. Enjoy your emotional experiences. But beware of what spirit they are.

I know what I have read..what I believe..and what I have experienced! It has brought me closer to God! I have fell deeper in love with Him. If what I have is of the Devil as you seem to claim...then the devil is failing in what he is out to do through it!

He split John's church. Charismatics split a church near here. After staying in a large church south of here, they end up coming here totally confused, emotionally unstable, and Biblically ignorant. That is because Charismatics build doctrine on experience, and not the other way around. They allegorize Scripture. Anything goes. They are unstable as water.

How in the world did you come up with that? How can me believing in the NT believers give me what I have today! Only the Holy Spirit can do that!

Your gospel is a false gospel. What you had was truth. Now you are departing from it.
You are starting to believe in a false gospel--health and wealth prosperity gospel--straight from the pit of hell. Just think of the videos I posted for you in the light of that gospel, and tell me that it is God's will for all to be prosperous? Not all live up to that affluent standard of the average America.

Consider this one final warning:

Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

 

[plain_n_simple]

DHK: "The gifts of the Holy Spirit, when looked in context of the Bible, are not for today."
No faith?
No wisdom?
No knowledge?
No discernment?
Or are you speaking of the gifts that require tangible proof?

 

[DHK]

DHK: "The gifts of the Holy Spirit, when looked in context of the Bible, are not for today."
No faith?
No wisdom?
No knowledge?
No discernment?
Or are you speaking of the gifts that require tangible proof?

As not to cause too much controversy here, I am trying to stick to what most of us agree are the sign gifts.
Having said that, what do you believe is the "gift of knowledge"?

 

[plain_n_simple]

I am speaking of the 9 gifts of the Holy Spirit in 1st Corinthians 12

 

[plain_n_simple]

DHK: "The gifts of the Holy Spirit, when looked in context of the Bible, are not for today."
No faith?
No wisdom?
No knowledge?
No discernment?
Or are you speaking of the gifts that require tangible proof?

 

[DHK]

DHK: "The gifts of the Holy Spirit, when looked in context of the Bible, are not for today."
No faith?
No wisdom?
No knowledge?
No discernment?
Or are you speaking of the gifts that require tangible proof?

2 Corinthians 12:12 Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.

Hebrews 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

They were given as signs to the Apostles to authenticate them and their message as being from God.
No apostles; no gifts.

 

[plain_n_simple]

2 Corinthians 12:12 Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.

Hebrews 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

They were given as signs to the Apostles to authenticate them and their message as being from God.
No apostles; no gifts.

So the gifts of Faith, Discerning spirits, Wisdom, and Knowledge are no longer needed and are gone with the last apostle. Interesting.

 

[awaken]

It says you have to be a witness to the resurrection of Jesus.

Act 1:22 beginning from the baptism of John until the day when he was taken up from us--one of these men must become with us a witness to his resurrection."

To do what? Manifest the Holy Spirit?

 

[John of Japan]

Please ask John about Shintoism since he lives in a nation that practices it. They practice ancestor worship. In the evening by faith they put out in front of their doors food for the spirits of their deceased ancestors believing that by pleasing them, they will protect their houses. In the morning they awake and see the evidence that they have been protected for that night.

That is precisely how your "faith" works. It is not established on the Word of God. It is blind. You look for so-called "evidence" afterward.

The evidence of my faith is already established. It is based on the resurrection of Christ, which was witnessed by over 500 witnesses. I cannot go back and call them all liars. The resurrection is one of the most well-established facts in all of history. I can establish that.

But no one can establish any evidence for your style of speaking in tongues. No one has ever established that it is a language that you speak in. It doesn't measure up to NT truth. It is fraudulent by NT standards. You have no evidence that you speak in an actual foreign language as the NT believers did. You have no evidence. It is just a sham.

Just to comment on this, DHK is exactly right. Shintoists have faith, and the Japanese language uses the exact same word for our faith and theirs, shinko. The difference is that have no factual basis for their faith. They'll pray to their millions of Shinto "gods" and believe in them, but they have not one ounce of proof. I once talked to a Shinto believer who thought that cockroaches could hear her, so she shouldn't lie.

Just so, as long as Charismatics do not submit to outside proof by lost people that their tongues are genuine languages, they have no proof whatsoever. They can say, "Believe me, my tongues are real," but there is no reason in the entire world or in the entire Word of God for me to believe them.

Awaken can say, "If you don't believe my tongues are real, you are in unbelief." That's ridiculous. What is there in his tongues to make me believe in them? In Acts 2 the tongues were proven to be real because people were there who understood them in their own language. Awaken, of course, will never have that proof, that verification. There have been Charismatics who submitted their tongues to linguistic examination. In every case, the tongues were fake, not real languages. I won't put my faith in the fake.

 

[awaken]

Yes you do. The gifts of the Holy Spirit, when looked in context of the Bible, are not for today.
There are no apostles today.
There are no unbelieving Jews today of the first century--the ones that put that crucified our Lord (Acts 2). It was for their generation, as Peter said.

In context of the whole word of God they are very much for today!
Peter said ..."as many as the Lord our God shall call"...

You don't keep in context.

Yes I do keep it in context! You are the one that adds to what is not there to justify your theory.

You will admit that the miracles of Moses are not for today, but not the gifts of the Spirit. Both are in a different time period: the time of Moses, and the time of Jesus and the Apostles.

You are splitting up the church age...the Holy Spirit was given to the church! As long as the church is here...the Holy Spirit will be here, He will never leave or forsake us.
As far as Moses...I believe the same God that was upon Moses to do miracles is still here! I do not limit God and I do not put Him in a box!

We see evidence of creation all around us (Psalm 19:1). It is called Intelligent Design.

But you were not here when he created it! You have to believe it without seeing it! You have to believe his word that He did created it!

But we don't see any evidence of the gifts of the Spirit, especially the sign gifts. I ask you again show me evidence of the gift of healing in operation today just as Peter healed in Acts 5:16. It is not operational and has not been for the last 20 centuries. To claim that it is, then, is delusional.

You will never see...because you are in disbelief! I shared what happened to our pastors daughter. God could do a miracle right in front of you and you would probably explain it away like you did with what I shared.

It is all about evidence. The Hindus faithfully believe in the god of Ganesh even though they have no evidence.

I HAVE THE WORD OF GOD!! I do not believe something outside the word of God! You are comparing my faith with someone/thing that does not believe the Word!

You faithfully believe that the gifts of the Spirit (gift of healing) are operational even though you have no evidence, has not been seen in over 20 centuries. What makes your faith any better than that of a Hindu. They also believe in their Sacred Writings, the Vedas. You are treating the Bible the same way.

If God tells us something in His written Word or just Spirit to spirit..if we know the voice of God we will obey that voice/word. I am not trusting in something that is not grounded in my Fathers will. If he said it...I can bank on it! It is so! If he said I can believe that Jesus is the son of God, He is my Lord and Savior, He resurrected and He is coming back again! I can have faith that he did all those things because I can trust the one that said it! It is not blind faith! I trust someone/God/His written Word that is trustworty! I am sorry if you do not have that kind of faith in Him or His word, but I do!

Blind faith. Do you also believe God will speak to you through a burning bush as he did to Moses? Why not? Anything is possible with God is it not? That is your reasoning. Do not limit God!

Again, I do not put God in a box..if he did it before He can do it again. Has he? NO! But I believe he can!

The fact is that God limits himself. He will not speak to you through a burning bush like he did with Moses. And he does not operate through the gift of healing today, and has not for the last 20 centuries.

Well, I will take God's word for it over yours!

I give you Scripture; you give me the "manifestation" of your unbiblical experience.

Heb. 11:1 plainly says that "faith is the evidence of things not see" Mark 16 is plain on who will lay hands on the sick and they will recover..Those that believe the gospel that the apostles preach. 1 Cor. 1:7,3;13: 12 plainly says that all the gifts will be here until the return of Christ. You ignore these and many more! You try and explain them away!

You can't prove that it was the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit never works contrary to his Word. Good feeling experiences are not necessarily the work of the Holy Spirit.

Who said anything about a feeling?

His Word says that the Godly shall suffer persecution. The reason that believers don't suffer persecution is because they are not godly.

WHAT????

Have fun! Have your experiences! Go, enjoy life! But is it of God??
I doubt it. God works different ways in different dispensations. This is not the apostolic age. The apostles have died off along with the supernatural gifts of the Spirit. Enjoy your emotional experiences. But beware of what spirit they are.

Again, your judgement of my experience with God does not matter. I do not see the dispensations split the way you do. We are still in the church age..he is still calling out His bride! Once he poured out the HS He is here to stay!

He split John's church.

Don't let John here you say that..he will get offended if you think it was satan that split his church.

Charismatics split a church near here. After staying in a large church south of here, they end up coming here totally confused, emotionally unstable, and Biblically ignorant. That is because Charismatics build doctrine on experience, and not the other way around. They allegorize Scripture. Anything goes. They are unstable as water.

I can not say what most of them do or say. The experience I have with the "manifestation of the Holy Spirit" is within the Baptist churches here. Yes! One of them split and those that did not believe left the church...but the church has grown and many things are happening! People are being delivered of addictions! Salvations! They are falling in Love with Jesus! They are up to two services now!

Your gospel is a false gospel. What you had was truth. Now you are departing from it.

no! I believed what man taught me! Now, I believe what the Word says!

You are starting to believe in a false gospel--health and wealth prosperity gospel--straight from the pit of hell. Just think of the videos I posted for you in the light of that gospel, and tell me that it is God's will for all to be prosperous? Not all live up to that affluent standard of the average America.

I said I had more questions than answers concerning those doctrines....

Consider this one final warning:

Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

I really do believe you mean well. And I do not take offense to this...But the gospel I believe is the one that they preached! It was one of power..not just words!

 

[awaken]

Just to comment on this, DHK is exactly right. Shintoists have faith, and the Japanese language uses the exact same word for our faith and theirs, shinko. The difference is that have no factual basis for their faith. They'll pray to their millions of Shinto "gods" and believe in them, but they have not one ounce of proof. I once talked to a Shinto believer who thought that cockroaches could hear her, so she shouldn't lie.

Just so, as long as Charismatics do not submit to outside proof by lost people that their tongues are genuine languages, they have no proof whatsoever. They can say, "Believe me, my tongues are real," but there is no reason in the entire world or in the entire Word of God for me to believe them.

Awaken can say, "If you don't believe my tongues are real, you are in unbelief." That's ridiculous. What is there in his tongues to make me believe in them? In Acts 2 the tongues were proven to be real because people were there who understood them in their own language. Awaken, of course, will never have that proof, that verification. There have been Charismatics who submitted their tongues to linguistic examination. In every case, the tongues were fake, not real languages. I won't put my faith in the fake.

My faith has never been in tongues! You do not have to believe in the manifestation of the Spirit through tongues....but your unbelief in them will not take what I know to be of God and the benefits that come from it!

 

[DHK]

My faith has never been in tongues! You do not have to believe in the manifestation of the Spirit through tongues....but your unbelief in them will not take what I know to be of God and the benefits that come from it!

You faith is in tongues or at least in "the belief" that tongues is a doctrine that is valid and operational for today and therefore should be practiced. If you did not have that faith, you would not practice something that you call "tongues" but the Bible doesn't. What the Bible calls the gift of tongues or languages, you don't have at all. You do not speak in a known language, can't understand what you are saying and neither can anyone else. It is totally unbiblical. The entire emphasis of chapter 14 in 1Cor. was on understanding. Your emphasis in on NOT understanding. It is the exact opposite. It is simply a "feel-good" experience to you--no guarantee that it is of the Holy Spirit whatsoever.

 

[DHK]

In context of the whole word of God they are very much for today!
Peter said ..."as many as the Lord our God shall call"...

Peter did say that.
Paul also was speaking to the very ones that crucified Christ, and that is who he was speaking to. The tongues were a sign to THEM, those unbelieving Jews who were soon to feel the wrath of God in just a few short years. It was a sign that those who spoke were God's messengers speaking forth God's message. They couldn't avoid it any longer.

Yes I do keep it in context! You are the one that adds to what is not there to justify your theory.

You have taken one phrase out of 1Cor.12:7 of six words and built an entire doctrine around it. Don't tell me I am adding to the Word of God.

You are splitting up the church age...the Holy Spirit was given to the church! As long as the church is here...the Holy Spirit will be here, He will never leave or forsake us.

The Holy Spirit will never leave us. I never said he would. You are once again twisting words. Study your Bible. The Holy Spirit has been working on this earth from the days of creation. But he works in different ways during different periods of time. He works today differently than he did during the days of the apostles, as he did during the days of Moses. These truths are self-evident.

As far as Moses...I believe the same God that was upon Moses to do miracles is still here! I do not limit God and I do not put Him in a box!
But you were not here when he created it! You have to believe it without seeing it! You have to believe his word that He did created it!
You will never see...because you are in disbelief!

My faith is based on facts, the facts of the Bible, the resurrection, the known facts of God's Word. Your faith is not based on facts. It is existential, esoteric, and even mystical. Faith was never meant to be that. Your faith is like the Hindu's faith. You have as much basis for your faith that they have for theirs when they put "their faith" in the god of Ganesh, the elephant god. Their faith is rooted in the Vedas in as much as yours is in the Bible. But it is not grounded in fact. It is simply "God can do anything because I believe the Bible."
The Hindu says: "My god can do anything because I believe the Vedas."
What is so different?

I shared what happened to our pastors daughter. God could do a miracle right in front of you and you would probably explain it away like you did with what I shared.

No I wouldn't. I know that God answers prayer and in doing so people are often healed. But all of that is according to His will, and doesn't happen ALL the time. I have seen people healed as well. But that does not mean the gift of healing is in operation today.
Show me someone who has the gift of healing and can heal as Peter did in Acts 5:16. You can't.

I HAVE THE WORD OF GOD!! I do not believe something outside the word of God! You are comparing my faith with someone/thing that does not believe the Word!

That is right. You do not properly use the Word of God. Anyone can hold the Bible in their hand and say I have the Word of God. So what! How do you apply the Word to your life? How do you follow the doctrines written therein. Does it all harmonize together? Or do you follow it like a Hindu follows the Vedas?

If God tells us something in His written Word or just Spirit to spirit..if we know the voice of God we will obey that voice/word. I am not trusting in something that is not grounded in my Fathers will. If he said it...I can bank on it! It is so! If he said I can believe that Jesus is the son of God, He is my Lord and Savior, He resurrected and He is coming back again! I can have faith that he did all those things because I can trust the one that said it! It is not blind faith! I trust someone/God/His written Word that is trustworty! I am sorry if you do not have that kind of faith in Him or His word, but I do!

Is this what God told you:

Thus saith Lord: He that follows after me shall keep my commandments.
Judas went out and hanged himself.
Go and do thou likewise.
What thou doest do quickly.
And he cried with a loud voice: "It is finished."

That is your method of Bible interpretation. Have you followed it yet? Is it God's will for your life?

Again, I do not put God in a box..if he did it before He can do it again. Has he? NO! But I believe he can!

Sure, God can do anything, so you say. But that is what the devil wants you to believe. God can't do anything. God limits himself by His Word and by his nature. God never lies. That is one immutable thing that never changes. He cannot lie.
Here is an example of one thing God could not do.
When Jesus was on the way to being tried, he told Peter to put up his sword. They that use the sword shall perish by the sword. But then he told Peter: "Do you not know that I could call 12 legions of angels (72,000) from my Father and he would send them."
Think about that.
The Creator is about to be crucified. He had the ability to call 72,000 angels from heaven. In the OT, one angel slaughtered 186,000 of Israel's enemy. Yet Jesus withheld using that power. He did not do what He could have done because it was not God's will. God will not go against His own Will--never.

It is not his will to have the gifts of the Spirit operative.
It is not his will to do certain things. Thus when you say meaningless statements as: Has he? "NO! But I believe he can!"
I reply:
It is outside of the will of God to do so.

Well, I will take God's word for it over yours!

You are not taking God's word; but ignoring it. God does not speak to individuals through burning bushes today. How is "taking God's Word over mine" proving that God still talks to people through burning bushes? Do you know how much sense you make?

Heb. 11:1 plainly says that "faith is the evidence of things not see" Mark 16 is plain on who will lay hands on the sick and they will recover..Those that believe the gospel that the apostles preach. 1 Cor. 1:7,3;13: 12 plainly says that all the gifts will be here until the return of Christ.

It doesn't teach that at all; you want to force that interpretation on that passage but that is not what it teaches.

You ignore these and many more! You try and explain them away!

I teach the totality of Scripture and harmonize all the Scripture together, using each one in its context at the same time.

Who said anything about a feeling?

The modern day tongues experience is an experience, an emotional high.

WHAT????

Let me explain this so you have a proper understanding.
Go into a Charismatic church. They will ask if you have spoken in tongues yet. If you haven't had the experience yet, you are looked down upon as being "not very spiritual." A spiritual person will have spoken in tongues. Speaking in tongues is the indicator of whether or not you are spiritual (in their circles. It becomes a dividing point.

But that is not what the Bible teaches.
The Bible teaches this:
Paul told Timothy: "Yea, all who live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution."
A godly person, a spiritual person suffers persecution for their faith.
It doesn't say a spiritual person speaks in tongues. It says a spiritual or godly person suffers for their faith. Might we rightly conclude that those who don't suffer for their faith are not very godly?

Here is a link for you to read.
Please take a look at it, and you will know something of what I am talking about.

http://www.worthynews.com/11793-breaking-news-pakistan-blasphemy-boy-ryan-in-hiding

 

[awaken]

You faith is in tongues or at least in "the belief" that tongues is a doctrine that is valid and operational for today and therefore should be practiced. If you did not have that faith, you would not practice something that you call "tongues" but the Bible doesn't. What the Bible calls the gift of tongues or languages, you don't have at all. You do not speak in a known language, can't understand what you are saying and neither can anyone else. It is totally unbiblical. The entire emphasis of chapter 14 in 1Cor. was on understanding. Your emphasis in on NOT understanding. It is the exact opposite. It is simply a "feel-good" experience to you--no guarantee that it is of the Holy Spirit whatsoever.

Don't tell me where my faith is...Do you know my heart? Get off me personally and address the scriptures. I thought you were a moderater?

My faith is in the one that died on the cross! The one that paid the price! The one that sent the Holy Spirit to be with us and in us! Tongues is just a manifestation of that gift!