manifestation vs gift

[awaken]

The Holy Spirit is nowhere mentioned as a gift.

So do you have to earn Him?

Your favorite phrase, "manifestation of the Spirit," found only in 1Cor.12:7, from which you have built an entire doctrine, doesn't even help you here. The Holy Spirit is not a Gift; He is God Almighty, the third person of the triune Godhead, the Creator of heaven and earth! Don't demean God to "a gift."

I am not demeaning God! Are you saying that the Holy Spirit is not from above? What could be a greater gift than His nature to be in you and His power to be on you!
Unlike you I do not want to explain the scripture away! It is there! So deal with it!

Look at Scripture:
But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. (1Co 12:7)
For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; (1Co 12:8)
To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; (1Co 12:9)
To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: (1Co 12:10)
But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. (1Co 12:11)
For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. (1Co 12:12)
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (1Co 12:13)
For the body is not one member, but many. (1Co 12:14)

"The manifestation of the Spirit is given," not the Spirit is given. Get your facts straight. In context, the Spirit has revealed the Gifts of the Spirit which have been manifested through the different members of the Corinthian Church. Not every member had the same gift. They all had different gifts. They were to be content with what gift God had given them.

IF they were to be content then why did Paul tell them to desire them.
If you do not have the Holy Spirt then you can not manifest Him!

According to you the Holy Spirit has met his demise. Someone killed him off. He hasn't been around since the burning bush incident since he hasn't spoken in burning bushes since then. That is precisely your logic.

No, that is your logic! You are the one asking me if He still speaks through a burning bush! I have always said that ..THE HOLY SPIRIT CAME ON THE DAY OF PENTECOST, TO REMAIN WITH THE CHURCH UNTIL IT IS COMPLETE AND PRESENTED TO THE LORD JESUS AT HIS COMING. JUST AS JESUS CHRIST FINISHED THE WORK HE CAME TO DO IN THE FLESH, SO THE HOLY SPIRIT WILL FINISH THE WORK HE CAME TO DO IN THE CHURCH.

Manifestation simply means "revealed," which a multitude of translations will tell you. The church is still here. God, through the Holy Spirit still reveals himself today, not just the same way you want him to do. God is not subject to your commands!

No where have I said he is here at my command!
So lets use your word reveal...."But the reveal of the Spirit is geben to every man to profit withal." It still says the same thing...It is the Spirit that reveals himself through the church in the ways that are listed in vs. 8-10.

That is what Scripture says. If it isn't prove me wrong according to Scripture.

Just a few that I have posted over and over...1 Cor. 1:7-8;13:12.

You put words in my mouth. Anywhere else that is called lying.
I never said the Holy Spirit stopped manifesting/revealing himself.
ICor.12 speaks of the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Read my post..I said like 1 Cor. 12 says that He manifest.

The title of this thread is called "Manifestation vs. Gift."
In the first century the Holy Spirit manifested himself through the gifts of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, among other ways. That was just one way. Here is another way:

WHAT? THe gifts of the gifts of the Holy Spirit? I never said it was the only way! I just said He is still manifesting today the same way because Jesus Christ has not come back.

Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him, (Act 13:9)
And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord? (Act 13:10)
And now, behold, the hand of the Lord is upon thee, and thou shalt be blind, not seeing the sun for a season. And immediately there fell on him a mist and a darkness; and he went about seeking some to lead him by the hand. (Act 13:11)

Paul was filled with the Holy Spirit. That is a ministry of the Holy Spirit. Look how it was manifested this time. I wouldn't have wanted to be on the receiving end of Paul's "manifestation of the Holy Spirit" at that time!!!

I do not disagree that the Holy Spirit manifest himself in different ways! I just do not limit him to just a few and put him in a box concerning the others!

 

[DHK]

So do you have to earn Him?

I don't know what you are talking about.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
The Holy Spirit has been here since the creation of the earth and has never left. He is God, the third person of the tri-une Godhead. How can you "earn" God? God is not a gift. He is the Creator, the Almighty God, Holy, Just, One who demands our worship and submission, the King of kings, and the Lord of lords. He is God, before whom every knee shall bow and tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of the Father. This is who Christ is (who is the second person of the Godhead), and the Holy Spirit is the third person. He is not a "gift." Don't demean God.

I am not demeaning God! Are you saying that the Holy Spirit is not from above? What could be a greater gift than His nature to be in you and His power to be on you!
Unlike you I do not want to explain the scripture away! It is there! So deal with it!

He is not a gift; rather the Giver of gifts. He is your Creator. All things come from him. Without Him not anything was made that is made. Because the Holy Spirit is from above does not make him a gift. It makes him omniscient. Concerning Jesus Christ, here is a verse for you to cogitate upon:

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
--Jesus was talking to Nicodemus on earth, and at the same time refers to Himself as in heaven. He is omniscient; as is the Holy Spirit. He is God. He is the Giver of gifts, not the gift Himself. Don't demean God, or His character.

IF they were to be content then why did Paul tell them to desire them.
If you do not have the Holy Spirt then you can not manifest Him!

All believers have the Holy Spirit. What happened at the Day of Pentecost was historical. It was a day in which the Holy Spirit started to indwell believers. Before that time he came upon God's chosen at certain times. A good example is Samson. The Holy Spirit would come upon Samson at certain times in his life and give him super-human strength. He didn't always have that strength. Notice in the latter years of his life that strength was taken from. He got his life right with God, and God gave him his strength back one last time that he might avenge the Israelites of their enemy, the Philistines. He wasn't indwelt as we are now.

The gifts were given during the apostolic age. They are not given now. And you have no evidence that they are "manifested" or revealed today. Who on earth can heal as Peter did in Acts 5:16. No one. You believe blindly, without evidence. The early believers had evidence.

No, that is your logic! You are the one asking me if He still speaks through a burning bush! I have always said that ..THE HOLY SPIRIT CAME ON THE DAY OF PENTECOST, TO REMAIN WITH THE CHURCH UNTIL IT IS COMPLETE AND PRESENTED TO THE LORD JESUS AT HIS COMING. JUST AS JESUS CHRIST FINISHED THE WORK HE CAME TO DO IN THE FLESH, SO THE HOLY SPIRIT WILL FINISH THE WORK HE CAME TO DO IN THE CHURCH.

And then what? Does he die after he finishes His work? Your theology is all mixed up and confused.
First the Holy Spirit did not come on the Day of Pentecost. He has always been here working through believers in different ways. He has been here since the first day of creation (Genesis 1:2).
Second, the Holy Spirit is God. He will never disappear. Don't demean God.
Third the Bible does not say that the Holy Spirit will present Christ at His coming. Give Scripture for that.
Fourth, There is no "Church," only churches. Perhaps you are referring to the Bride of Christ. It is Christ that is making ready his Bride, not the Holy Spirit.
Your theology is way off. You can't support from Scripture what you believe. The gifts have ceased. You can't support from Scripture that they still are operational today. You can't support from history that they are operational today. You can't even point to the present day activity of the gifts being used today, can you? Why are you claiming something that doesn't exist? That is called being hypocritical.

No where have I said he is here at my command!

So lets use your word reveal...."But the reveal of the Spirit is geben to every man to profit withal." It still says the same thing...It is the Spirit that reveals himself through the church in the ways that are listed in vs. 8-10.

You talk as if he is. But in truth you can't point to a single sign gift that is in operation today, can you? Why go on with this hypocrisy. Either put up or shut up, as they say. Give the evidence.
The word "reveal" is used this way:

(MKJV) But to each one is given the showing forth of the Spirit to our profit.
(LITV) And to each one is given the showing forth of the Spirit to our profit.

A "showing forth" or "revealing."
What is the context? What does the verse before it say?
1 Corinthians 12:6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
The context is the gifts themselves, not the Holy Spirit.
To each one is given the gifts of the Spirit to our profit (the church's profit),
1 Corinthians 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
--For to one is given by the Spirit of wisdom, to another the word of knowledge, etc.

It is not the Holy Spirit that was given here. It is the distribution or the revealing of the gifts of the Spirit that have now ceased.
The Holy Spirit never ceased. The gifts did.

Just a few that I have posted over and over...1 Cor. 1:7-8;13:12.

You have not proven me wrong. Where are the gifts of the Spirit in operation today?

Read my post..I said like 1 Cor. 12 says that He manifest.

The gifts of the Spirit were manifested or revealed to the Corinthians in the first century in that church. Read the context.

WHAT? THe gifts of the gifts of the Holy Spirit? I never said it was the only way! I just said He is still manifesting today the same way because Jesus Christ has not come back.

But he is not manifesting himself the same way is he.
Where are the gifts of the Spirit being manifested. You can't see that. You claim something without proof. The Holy Spirit works in different ways at different times in history. Now 2,000 years later he is not working in that same way as he did in the apostolic age.

I do not disagree that the Holy Spirit manifest himself in different ways! I just do not limit him to just a few and put him in a box concerning the others!

Then perhaps you would agree that we still live under the law in the times of Moses.
We do live in a different age. The Temple has been destroyed. The Jews have been scattered. The signs have been taken away for which purposes they were given. And that is only one of the purposes.

 

[awaken]

I don't know what you are talking about.

You said he was not a gift...But he was poured out to the church...believers! So did we earn Him or was he a promised gift from the father?

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
The Holy Spirit has been here since the creation of the earth and has never left. He is God, the third person of the tri-une Godhead. How can you "earn" God? God is not a gift. He is the Creator, the Almighty God, Holy, Just, One who demands our worship and submission, the King of kings, and the Lord of lords. He is God, before whom every knee shall bow and tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of the Father. This is who Christ is (who is the second person of the Godhead), and the Holy Spirit is the third person. He is not a "gift." Don't demean God.

I am not demeaning God! He poured himself out on the cross and He poured Himself out on the day of Pentecost. Again I ask you do you earn Him or did He freely give Himself to us?

He is not a gift; rather the Giver of gifts. He is your Creator. All things come from him. Without Him not anything was made that is made. Because the Holy Spirit is from above does not make him a gift. It makes him omniscient. Concerning Jesus Christ, here is a verse for you to cogitate upon:

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
--Jesus was talking to Nicodemus on earth, and at the same time refers to Himself as in heaven. He is omniscient; as is the Holy Spirit. He is God. He is the Giver of gifts, not the gift Himself. Don't demean God, or His character.

I am not disagreeing with you...I believe that He is all you have said He is and more...I am not demeaning God! So you are saying that the Holy Spirit is different than the holy spirit? One is the Giver and one is the gift? A gift is given right? So explain this verse...
"For He who God has sent speaks the words of God; for He gives the Spirit without measure." John 3:34 God gave Spirit without measure to Jesus...we have a measure..but it is still something GIVEN!

All believers have the Holy Spirit. What happened at the Day of Pentecost was historical. It was a day in which the Holy Spirit started to indwell believers. Before that time he came upon God's chosen at certain times. A good example is Samson. The Holy Spirit would come upon Samson at certain times in his life and give him super-human strength. He didn't always have that strength. Notice in the latter years of his life that strength was taken from. He got his life right with God, and God gave him his strength back one last time that he might avenge the Israelites of their enemy, the Philistines. He wasn't indwelt as we are now.

Wow! We agree on this! Praise the Lord..common ground with DHK!

The gifts were given during the apostolic age. They are not given now. And you have no evidence that they are "manifested" or revealed today. Who on earth can heal as Peter did in Acts 5:16. No one. You believe blindly, without evidence. The early believers had evidence.

No, they believe Jesus word...to wait for the promise. They did not see the promise but believed anyway! The evidence came later!

And then what? Does he die after he finishes His work? Your theology is all mixed up and confused.

Where did I say He died? His work on earth with the calling out, equiping, empowering etc. will be done! Quit putting words in my post that I never say!!!! I never said He died!!!

First the Holy Spirit did not come on the Day of Pentecost. He has always been here working through believers in different ways. He has been here since the first day of creation (Genesis 1:2).

I agree He has always been here. But He was not poured out and available to all believers! As you stated above only to a select few! But now we can all be empowered by Him to live out the life God said we could...not by our power..but by His!

Second, the Holy Spirit is God. He will never disappear. Don't demean God.

Quit trying to make it look like I said He will disappear! I have never said that!

Third the Bible does not say that the Holy Spirit will present Christ at His coming. Give Scripture for that.

Is the Holy Spirit calling out the bride of Christ?

Fourth, There is no "Church," only churches. Perhaps you are referring to the Bride of Christ. It is Christ that is making ready his Bride, not the Holy Spirit.

So the Holy Spirit plays no part in the his bride?

Your theology is way off. You can't support from Scripture what you believe. The gifts have ceased. You can't support from Scripture that they still are operational today. You can't support from history that they are operational today. You can't even point to the present day activity of the gifts being used today, can you? Why are you claiming something that doesn't exist? That is called being hypocritical.

No, I have witness in my own family the healing touch of God by the laying on of hands! But if you do not believe the Word...you will not believe the evidence!

You talk as if he is. But in truth you can't point to a single sign gift that is in operation today, can you? Why go on with this hypocrisy. Either put up or shut up, as they say. Give the evidence.

see above statement...

The word "reveal" is used this way:

(MKJV) But to each one is given the showing forth of the Spirit to our profit.
(LITV) And to each one is given the showing forth of the Spirit to our profit.

A "showing forth" or "revealing."
What is the context? What does the verse before it say?
1 Corinthians 12:6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
The context is the gifts themselves, not the Holy Spirit.

It is the revealing (to satisfy you) of the Holy Spirit through the church. Man cannot heal it is the power of the Holy Spirit manifested through the obedience of man to lay hands on the sick. Man can not speak a language not learned..it is the HS speaking through that man. It is a WORD of wisdom or knowledge given to man by the Holy Spirit...it is not man's word! etc.

To each one is given the gifts of the Spirit to our profit (the church's profit),
1 Corinthians 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
--For to one is given by the Spirit of wisdom, to another the word of knowledge, etc.

It is not the Holy Spirit that was given here. It is the distribution or the revealing of the gifts of the Spirit that have now ceased.
The Holy Spirit never ceased. The gifts did.

The Holy Spirit did not cease and I have never said He did. He was poured out on the day of Pentecost...we are still in the church age (calling out His bride)..and the church is still equiped with the power of God to do His ministry here on earth. Show me where he said he would take away his gifts to the church! WHy would God empower a church early and then take that power away? We are still called out to do a work for God...and we still need all the Holy Spirit gave in the beginning!

You have not proven me wrong. Where are the gifts of the Spirit in operation today?

You will never witness or experience them until you first believe they are here! I believed before I ever experienced or saw them for myself!

The gifts of the Spirit were manifested or revealed to the Corinthians in the first century in that church. Read the context.

The context is to correct the use of how to manifest in an assembly! You have also referred to the correction in the book of Corinthians..all scripture is to be used today for correction etc.

[pquote]But he is not manifesting himself the same way is he.
Where are the gifts of the Spirit being manifested. You can't see that. You claim something without proof. The Holy Spirit works in different ways at different times in history. Now 2,000 years later he is not working in that same way as he did in the apostolic age. [/quote] You are the one that divided the ages! The word does not divide the church age..it will not end until Jesus returns to get His bride..the apostles along with prophets, evangelist, pastors and teachers were given to the church and the church is still here!

Then perhaps you would agree that we still live under the law in the times of Moses.
We do live in a different age. The Temple has been destroyed. The Jews have been scattered. The signs have been taken away for which purposes they were given. And that is only one of the purposes.

THe age of the Gentiles..the church age has not ended! THe HS was poured out for all believers and is still here today to empower/equip the church today.

 

[DHK]

You said he was not a gift...But he was poured out to the church...believers! So did we earn Him or was he a promised gift from the father?

He is not a gift; He is God Himself.
Romans 6:23...The gift of God is eternal life. Salvation is the gift; not the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the 3rd person of the triune Godhead--God himself.
Your question is moot. We do not earn Him; neither is he a promised gift.
The subject should revolve around salvation. Salvation cannot be earned. Salvation is the gift of God.
The disciples walked with Jesus in the flesh when they were on the earth. When they began to realize what Jesus was talking about, that He actually was going to the cross and die, they began to be sorrowful. Jesus told them that He would send them a Comforter. Instead of the physical presence of Jesus, they would have the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit. That is what happened at Pentecost.
When a person is saved Jesus by the power of his Holy Spirit comes and dwells within that person. The Bible says: "You are the temple of the Holy Spirit." It is salvation that is the gift. At salvation the Holy Spirit comes and indwells the believer. He is not the gift; salvation is the gift of God.

I am not demeaning God! He poured himself out on the cross and He poured Himself out on the day of Pentecost. Again I ask you do you earn Him or did He freely give Himself to us?

You put too much emphasis on the Holy Spirit.
It was Jesus, the God-Man that hung upon the cross, dying for our sins. He shed his blood for us. He also said: "I will lay my life down; I will raise it up again. No man takes my life from me." Though he went to the cross willingly he still had power over his own life. It was not the Holy Spirit that hung on the cross; it was Jesus. It was not the Holy Spirit poured out on the cross; it was the blood of Christ.
Read my answer above. Neither is God earned nor given. He is the Creator. He is God. He is the Giver of gifts. And the gift he would like to give you is salvation. You must accept it by faith. The Holy Spirit is not a genie you carry around in your pocket and take out any time you have a use for. He is God. His gift to all is eternal life which must be accepted by faith in Jesus Christ and the sacrificial work that he did on the cross. We come to him as a criminal realizing that he paid for the crimes that we ourselves could never pay for. His blood made the atonement. He paid the ransom and offers us eternal life. We can't earn it. It is a gift to be received by faith.

I am not disagreeing with you...I believe that He is all you have said He is and more...I am not demeaning God! So you are saying that the Holy Spirit is different than the holy spirit? One is the Giver and one is the gift? A gift is given right? So explain this verse...
"For He who God has sent speaks the words of God; for He gives the Spirit without measure." John 3:34 God gave Spirit without measure to Jesus...we have a measure..but it is still something GIVEN!

Jesus was the God-Man on earth: fully God and perfect man. As man He had all of the Holy Spirit there was to have. As God it had to be that way. Thus he had the Spirit without measure.
Once a person gets saved he also receives the Holy Spirit, or better put the Holy Spirit comes and indwells him. This is not a gift, it is part of salvation. "If any man have not the Spirit of God, he is none of His."

No, they believe Jesus word...to wait for the promise. They did not see the promise but believed anyway! The evidence came later!

What promise? I referred you to Peter and Acts 5:16. What did he have to wait for? He had the gift of healing and was demonstrating it right then and there. Thousands were coming to him from all around Jerusalem, and he healed them all. He had been with Jesus physical presence for three years. Pentecost had come and gone. He was full of the Holy Spirit. What more did Peter have to wait for? The evidence of his healing was right before him, and everyone else.
That doesn't happen today.

Where did I say He died? His work on earth with the calling out, equiping, empowering etc. will be done! Quit putting words in my post that I never say!!!! I never said He died!!!

Every time you imply that the Holy Spirit is going to stop working. See what you just said. His work will be done. So then what? He won't be needed anymore? Will he just die off? The Holy Spirit is God. God's work is never done, and that includes the Holy Spirit. It simply changes.

I agree He has always been here. But He was not poured out and available to all believers! As you stated above only to a select few! But now we can all be empowered by Him to live out the life God said we could...not by our power..but by His!

To use your language, "he was poured out" but one time in history, and that was on the Day of Pentecost, 2,000 years ago. That event will never happen again. What does happen is that he indwells the believer when they come to Christ and trust him. That is what continues.

IMO, you use the phrase out of context.
Here is where it comes from:
Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
--But that never happened. That will not happen until the Millennial Kingdom comes. God's Spirit was not "poured out." And it certainly was not poured out on all flesh. If it were then all 100,000 plus Jews at that feast would have been saved. But only 3,000 of them were saved.

Quit trying to make it look like I said He will disappear! I have never said that!
Is the Holy Spirit calling out the bride of Christ?
So the Holy Spirit plays no part in the his bride?

No. Jesus Christ comes for His own bride, whom he then presents to the Father.

No, I have witness in my own family the healing touch of God by the laying on of hands! But if you do not believe the Word...you will not believe the evidence!

Most of us have seen God heal. That is not the gift of healing. That is an answer to prayer. The gift of healing is a supernatural gift such as Peter had in Acts 5:16. Please admit that you have never seen that, or that you have never had that happen in your life. It does not happen today for the gift of healing has ceased. An answer to prayer and the gift of healing are two different things.

see above statement...
It is the revealing (to satisfy you) of the Holy Spirit through the church. Man cannot heal it is the power of the Holy Spirit manifested through the obedience of man to lay hands on the sick.

That has nothing to do with the gifts of 1Cor.12.
When the multitudes came to Jesus there is no evidence that Jesus laid hands on them all. There is no evidence that Peter laid hands on all who came to him in Acts 5:16. You are speaking of apples and oranges.

Man can not speak a language not learned..it is the HS speaking through that man.

The Holy Spirit can speak through me in my own language.
But the Holy Spirit has not given me the language of the nation I am currently in to speak it miraculously. And that is what he did in the first century.

It is a WORD of wisdom or knowledge given to man by the Holy Spirit...it is not man's word! etc.

1 Corinthians 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
--These were revelatory gifts, given when the NT revelation was not complete. They are not in operation today because we have the NT.

The Holy Spirit did not cease and I have never said He did. He was poured out on the day of Pentecost...we are still in the church age (calling out His bride)..and the church is still equiped with the power of God to do His ministry here on earth. Show me where he said he would take away his gifts to the church! WHy would God empower a church early and then take that power away? We are still called out to do a work for God...and we still need all the Holy Spirit gave in the beginning!

You refuse to rightly divide the word of truth.
The Holy Spirit is God. God operates in different ways during different periods of time. The Gifts of the Spirit were given during the apostolic times when:
The apostles themselves needed to be authenticated, and so did their message.
The unbelieving Jews of the first century were given a sign (1Cor.14:21,22)
The revelation of the NT was not complete.

All of these came to an end at the end of the first century, and thus the gifts came to an end at the same time. We have no evidence of the gifts operating today as they did in the first century.

No one said that He would take away the Holy Spirit! And that is why I keep asking you: Why do you demean God? Why are you putting words into people's mouths, words they haven't said is more accurate.

You will never witness or experience them until you first believe they are here! I believed before I ever experienced or saw them for myself!

You have never seen them. Have you ever seen anyone heal thousands like Peter did in Acts 5:16?
Have you ever seen God give to a missionary languages of the country he's going to so he didn't have to study them?

 

[awaken]

He is not a gift; He is God Himself.
Romans 6:23...The gift of God is eternal life. Salvation is the gift; not the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the 3rd person of the triune Godhead--God himself.
Your question is moot. We do not earn Him; neither is he a promised gift.
The subject should revolve around salvation. Salvation cannot be earned. Salvation is the gift of God.
The disciples walked with Jesus in the flesh when they were on the earth. When they began to realize what Jesus was talking about, that He actually was going to the cross and die, they began to be sorrowful. Jesus told them that He would send them a Comforter. Instead of the physical presence of Jesus, they would have the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit. That is what happened at Pentecost.
When a person is saved Jesus by the power of his Holy Spirit comes and dwells within that person. The Bible says: "You are the temple of the Holy Spirit." It is salvation that is the gift. At salvation the Holy Spirit comes and indwells the believer. He is not the gift; salvation is the gift of God.

You put too much emphasis on the Holy Spirit.
It was Jesus, the God-Man that hung upon the cross, dying for our sins. He shed his blood for us. He also said: "I will lay my life down; I will raise it up again. No man takes my life from me." Though he went to the cross willingly he still had power over his own life. It was not the Holy Spirit that hung on the cross; it was Jesus. It was not the Holy Spirit poured out on the cross; it was the blood of Christ.
Read my answer above. Neither is God earned nor given. He is the Creator. He is God. He is the Giver of gifts. And the gift he would like to give you is salvation. You must accept it by faith. The Holy Spirit is not a genie you carry around in your pocket and take out any time you have a use for. He is God. His gift to all is eternal life which must be accepted by faith in Jesus Christ and the sacrificial work that he did on the cross. We come to him as a criminal realizing that he paid for the crimes that we ourselves could never pay for. His blood made the atonement. He paid the ransom and offers us eternal life. We can't earn it. It is a gift to be received by faith.

Jesus was the God-Man on earth: fully God and perfect man. As man He had all of the Holy Spirit there was to have. As God it had to be that way. Thus he had the Spirit without measure.
Once a person gets saved he also receives the Holy Spirit, or better put the Holy Spirit comes and indwells him. This is not a gift, it is part of salvation. "If any man have not the Spirit of God, he is none of His."

What promise? I referred you to Peter and Acts 5:16. What did he have to wait for? He had the gift of healing and was demonstrating it right then and there. Thousands were coming to him from all around Jerusalem, and he healed them all. He had been with Jesus physical presence for three years. Pentecost had come and gone. He was full of the Holy Spirit. What more did Peter have to wait for? The evidence of his healing was right before him, and everyone else.
That doesn't happen today.

Every time you imply that the Holy Spirit is going to stop working. See what you just said. His work will be done. So then what? He won't be needed anymore? Will he just die off? The Holy Spirit is God. God's work is never done, and that includes the Holy Spirit. It simply changes.

To use your language, "he was poured out" but one time in history, and that was on the Day of Pentecost, 2,000 years ago. That event will never happen again. What does happen is that he indwells the believer when they come to Christ and trust him. That is what continues.

IMO, you use the phrase out of context.
Here is where it comes from:
Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
--But that never happened. That will not happen until the Millennial Kingdom comes. God's Spirit was not "poured out." And it certainly was not poured out on all flesh. If it were then all 100,000 plus Jews at that feast would have been saved. But only 3,000 of them were saved.

No. Jesus Christ comes for His own bride, whom he then presents to the Father.

Most of us have seen God heal. That is not the gift of healing. That is an answer to prayer. The gift of healing is a supernatural gift such as Peter had in Acts 5:16. Please admit that you have never seen that, or that you have never had that happen in your life. It does not happen today for the gift of healing has ceased. An answer to prayer and the gift of healing are two different things.

That has nothing to do with the gifts of 1Cor.12.
When the multitudes came to Jesus there is no evidence that Jesus laid hands on them all. There is no evidence that Peter laid hands on all who came to him in Acts 5:16. You are speaking of apples and oranges.

The Holy Spirit can speak through me in my own language.
But the Holy Spirit has not given me the language of the nation I am currently in to speak it miraculously. And that is what he did in the first century.

1 Corinthians 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
--These were revelatory gifts, given when the NT revelation was not complete. They are not in operation today because we have the NT.

You refuse to rightly divide the word of truth.
The Holy Spirit is God. God operates in different ways during different periods of time. The Gifts of the Spirit were given during the apostolic times when:
The apostles themselves needed to be authenticated, and so did their message.
The unbelieving Jews of the first century were given a sign (1Cor.14:21,22)
The revelation of the NT was not complete.

All of these came to an end at the end of the first century, and thus the gifts came to an end at the same time. We have no evidence of the gifts operating today as they did in the first century.

No one said that He would take away the Holy Spirit! And that is why I keep asking you: Why do you demean God? Why are you putting words into people's mouths, words they haven't said is more accurate.

You have never seen them. Have you ever seen anyone heal thousands like Peter did in Acts 5:16?
Have you ever seen God give to a missionary languages of the country he's going to so he didn't have to study them?

We will never agree on this! Thread after thread and the same debate with you! :BangHead:

The bride is still being called out....there is no division between the age of the apostles and now! We are in the last days and He is calling out His bride!
The Holy Spirit will always exist!
The Holy Spirit will empower, exhort and comfort among many other things... until the return of Christ to receive His bride!

How do you put too much emphasis on the Holy Spirit? He is God on the earth today!

What promise did they have to wait for? The Holy Spirit available to ALL BELIEVERS! It happened on the day of Pentecost once and has never been taken back! Yes! it did happen! He has been poured out on all flesh! But most will not receive Him! He is here to empower etc. until the day Christ returns! (don't add to my words here! I am not saying he dies or does not exist!).

No, I have seen with my own eyes the very things you say do not exist! Your unbelief keeps you from seeing it for yourself! Just like the ones that would not enter the promise land.
Your also wrong about tongues and the purpose of tongues! But I am through debating that subject with you!