My sincere apologies to you. I promise it was not my intent to get you banned. In ignorance I did not realize the position I was putting you in, just as Paul, in ignorance, persecuted the church. For real Winman, I'm not being facetious. But I think I've a handle on where you stand on this now. It explains a lot to me. It's either you sincerely feel souls are perishing from false doctrine or you're getting paid to resist the true doctrine. I'm trying to make sense of your obsession.
Well, I'm not getting paid for this, and I could use the money. :laugh:
Now, I don't know if I can communicate to you what I see as the big error in Calvinism.
It is making regeneration primary. In Calvinism, if God didn't elect you before the foundation of the world, then the gospel is meaningless to you, it cannot do one good thing for you. When Jesus took all the sins of the world, the sins of every man upon himself and died for us, when he rose from the dead, this is all meaningless and pointless, because it cannot possibly help you unless you were elected and then regenerated by God. Calvinists believe they are saved because God elected them, not so much on what Jesus did. This places election before the gospel. There are some like Pinoybaptist who have been very clear about this.
But to the non-Cal, the death burial and resurrection of Christ is primary. We simply depend or trust upon this work. We are not working, we are depending upon what Jesus did for us. And we believe that those who God saw would believe are the elect. So election follows trusting in the work of Christ.
It is so hard to come up with good analogies. I once heard it like this.
Suppose you committed some crime. You come before a judge. The judge says you must pay a $10,000 dollar fine or go to jail for one year. You have no money.
Then a friend steps in and says, "Judge, I will pay the fine, I will pay the $10,000 my friend owes"
Now the judge looks at you and asks, "Will you accept this payment on your behalf?"
Now, you have a choice. You can say yes and accept this payment made in your behalf by another and go free, or you can be proud. You could say, "No judge, I do not accept it, I always pay my own way, I don't need someone else paying my fines for me."
And that is how unsaved people are. They are proud. They think they are worthy of salvation on their own merits. They will not humble themselves and admit they come short of righteousness. Men do not like to believe themselves sinners. Go down the street and ask people if they think they are going to heaven. I used to do lots of visitation years ago and I have asked hundreds of people this question. I cannot remember any person saying they were going to hell, all of them said they were going to heaven.
Then I would always ask them why they thought they were going to heaven, and they would always answer about the same. They would say they were good people, and that God would be pleased with them and admit them to heaven.
One two three four five six seven, all good children go to heaven...
This is what people believe. It is very difficult to get people to admit they are sinners that deserve hell. Problem is, we live in a world of sin. It is easy to look around and see murders, and wars, thefts, and corruption and tell ourselves we are good because we do not do those things. But compared to God we are filthy. He is perfectly HOLY, without sin altogether, and compared to him we all come short.
But in Calvinism there is no repentance, and there is no faith in the gospel, at least not until you are supernaturally regenerated. So it is regeneration that saves you, not what Jesus did. You cannot be saved without regeneration. And you are regenerated without having to admit you are a wicked sinner. In fact, according to Calvinism, you cannot. So you are already saved and born again before you admit you are a sinner and before you trust on the work of Christ.
Do you understand what I am saying?
To me that is a very serious error. It is Jesus who died for us and rose from the dead that saves us, nothing can be placed before it.
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