Many = All Many times In The Bible

I agree. He articulates through the keyboard what goes through my mind much better than I do

 

I agree, whole world does not mean every single person on the planet (if you remember my arguments), it refers to every wicked and sinful person on the planet as defined by John himself. He defines his meaning of whole world explicitly both times he uses it in 1 John and both times in Revelation.

So yes, even if one wants to go the route that 'whole world' means gentiles here, it still maintains its meaning I am arguing for (all wicked and sinful men) because that we who the gentiles were. Add to the that the term 'whole' is all inclusive, not exclusive.

Agreed.

That isn't what those verse reflect unless one comes to them presuming something at the first. I agree that Rev 5:9 states that Christ redeemed us (meaning all those saved) but that does not presume it was not without exeception, especially in light of all the other verses of scripture which are typically used in these debates.

Not sure exactly where you were going with this.. ??

By what presumtion should 1 John 2 be viewed through John 11??

Actually 1 John 2:2 should always be viewed with the context in mind, next we should look the authors consistant usage of specific words (like 'whole world' in this instance and propiation). IF the author doesn't use the word more than once or maybe only in a slightly vague manner then we should see how those words are defined in the rest of scripture (first how it is defined in the OT, and parelelled in the NT). [editted in - we should still look to see how the words are used consistantly bur first to see how the auther defines then the other scriptures] After that, we should look at other verses to find validation or not of what we are understanding the verse to say.

We do not use our theology to define scripture but we use scripture to define our theology. I don't think you would disagree with that, would you?

So Jesus died for the Jewish nation... does that mean the Jewish Nation has been set free from condemnation and sin?? If not the it would stand to reason that the 'us' in 1 John is either 1)not the nation of Israel since that would mean the whole nation was set free from condemnation and sin, or 2) it IS the nation of Israel refered to but though Christ died for all their sins only those of faith will be redeemed.

Thus it goes back to my original contention of:

 

Allan, isn't this like when the high priest made atonement for the whole nation? Yet, not every single person would receive it because of unbelief. Otherwise, we have the Pharisees who Christ condemned being saved.

 

Balanced? There are times I feel like I'm free falling :laugh:

I apprecaite both you and Web's kind words though I personally don't know... I have a hard time with such comments.. thank you.

 

Yes maam. That's it. :thumbs:

 

Hey, I got one right! :laugh:

Thanks. :wavey:

 

You get most of them right, Amy :thumbs:






well...except for that little stretch a few months back
The thing is, keeping an open mind and heart to the Truth, however that goes against what we believe or want to believe. I have changed SO MANY things that I thought were right at one point.