Many

[HisWitness]

The apostle paul who wrote this explains it further in 1 cor 15:22
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

All men are born in Adam .....by physical birth..and yet are spiritually dead.

Only those in Christ by Spiritual birth....are made alive....

all men are physically born in adam....but only the elect are spiritually born In Christ.

all men are in Adam, not all men are in Christ.

I totally agree with election cause its in the scriptures
not all are called at the same time--or in the same age.
there were first fruits at that time that were comming in

But you still have the MANY in both 1 man's event that means the same grp of people--so either both are unconditional or both conditional.
And we know if both were conditional it would be the work of man and not the work of god and grace of god

 

[HisWitness]

1 Corinthians 15:22 is the ONLY verse in all the Bible that says "in Adam" and says in Adam all DIE (FUTURE TENSE). You must be alive to die, so this actually refutes that we are born dead in sin.

Besides that, this verse is speaking of physical death only, the whole chapter of 1 Corinthians 15 concerns the resurrection of our physical bodies, not spiritual death.

You need to quit listening to error.

Adam was going to die bodily before he took the fruit of the tree and disobeyed God.Cause there was a tree of Life there also--now if he wasnt going to die bodily--there would be no need of a tree of life in the garden would there ?

And the DEATH men would die--God said Thou shalt surely die(means In bodily dieing thou shall surely die and remain dead ?

Did not God say he could destroy both SOUL and BODY in HELL(grave)
Not only did the body die but soul died also and they both remained DEAD until the Judgement and Resurrection-this was the DEATH men die.

I know some will disagree with this its ok

psalm 6-5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee(God) in the grave(Hell) who shall give thee thanks.

if theres no remembrance of God in the grave,there surely is no remembrance of anything in the grave(soul and body is DEAD) (but shall be raised at the Resurrection and Judgement)

Lazarus and the rich man is NOT true story of an event that really happened--it is a Parable.

Matthew 13-34 ALL these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables,and WITHOUT a parable spake he NOT unto them

 

[Winman]

You haven't responded to Romans 1:3;

Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

The scriptures say Jesus was made of the seed of David according to the flesh. David was a sinner who was descended from Adam, therefore Jesus was absolutely a son of Adam.

So, if all men inherit a sin nature from Adam, how did Jesus not have a sin nature?

Try answering the question instead of trying to change the subject.

 

[HisWitness]

You haven't responded to Romans 1:3;

Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

The scriptures say Jesus was made of the seed of David according to the flesh. David was a sinner who was descended from Adam, therefore Jesus was absolutely a son of Adam.

So, if all men inherit a sin nature from Adam, how did Jesus not have a sin nature?

Try answering the question instead of trying to change the subject.

others have spoken the truth on the matter to you already--i need not to repeat it friend read it again

 

[Winman]

others have spoken the truth on the matter to you already--i need not to repeat it friend read it again

No, others have repeated the superstitious belief of Augustine, I showed you scripture that shows Jesus was made of the seed of David, who was made of the seed of Adam.

I will ask you again, did Jesus inherit a sin nature from David and Adam?

Man up and answer the question.

 

[HisWitness]

No, others have repeated the superstitious belief of Augustine, I showed you scripture that shows Jesus was made of the seed of David, who was made of the seed of Adam.

I will ask you again, did Jesus inherit a sin nature from David and Adam?

Man up and answer the question.

First of all there was no man's seed put into mary to produce a child-Jesus Christ did not come from MAN HE came from GOD the Father--He was born the same way Adam was brought into this world not by a man's seed but by God the Father---you have no basis for what you are trying to say friend

 

[OldRegular]

Adam was going to die bodily before he took the fruit of the tree and disobeyed God.

You have no Scriptural basis for that statement!

 

[OldRegular]

First of all there was no man's seed put into mary to produce a child-Jesus Christ did not come from MAN HE came from GOD the Father--He was born the same way Adam was brought into this world not by a man's seed but by God the Father---you have no basis for what you are trying to say friend

Jesus Christ was of the seed of Mary and that is a Biblical fact. Being of the seed of Mary He was also the seed of David, Abraham, and Adam!

 

[Winman]

First of all there was no man's seed put into mary to produce a child-Jesus Christ did not come from MAN HE came from GOD the Father--He was born the same way Adam was brought into this world not by a man's seed but by God the Father---you have no basis for what you are trying to say friend

You are not getting it, Romans 1:3 proves that the seed of the man is passed through the mother, not just the father alone as many falsely teach.

Romans 1:3 tells us that Jesus was made of the seed of David. You can't get around this. Jesus must have received this seed through Mary, he could not possibly have received the seed of David from God the Father. David is a direct descendant of Adam, a seed of Adam, therefore Jesus was also a seed of Adam, a son of Adam.

Your problem is that you believe this nonsense that the sin nature is passed by the father only. The funny part is, there is not one scripture to support this, but there is scripture to support that the sin nature (if it were true) is passed by the mother.

Job 15:14 What is man, that he should be clean? and he which is born of a woman, that he should be righteous?

Job 25:4 How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?

If there is such a thing as a sin nature, there is more evidence from scripture that it is passed by the woman than man. And Jesus was born of a woman.

The scriptures say all men are born upright, but soon after go astray.

Ecc 7:29 Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.

The scriptures say God has made man upright, and the word "they" shows this is speaking of all men.

Believe the scriptures, not the superstition of Augustine.

 

[HisWitness]

You have no Scriptural basis for that statement!

Really!!

If adam would have ate of the tree of life he would have not died bodily.

That is why God put him from the garden so that would not happen.

Now he had access to that very same tree before his disobedince.

I do believe that tree did not change its effectiveness.

So if he wasnt going to die bodily already before the disobefience--what was the purpose and effect of eating the tree of life ???

I think its very clear here ,all you have to do is look at it

Adam was not made a eternal creature but was going to die bodily until or if he had of eaten of the tree of life!!!

And the sentence of DEATH was not only bodily(he was already going to die bodily)but also SOUL DEATH in HELL(grave) until the time of the judgement and resurrection and ALL mankind would be raised and judged

thats the DEATH that was to be defeated (the final enemy)

 

[HisWitness]

Jesus Christ was of the seed of Mary and that is a Biblical fact. Being of the seed of Mary He was also the seed of David, Abraham, and Adam!

im not arguing that point--what you have said is true!!!

im saying that He did not come by a man but by GOD himself--no man seed was put into mary to conceive Christ--But the overshadowing of the Holy Ghost is what put Christ in mary.

this my friend is completly different--and so forth he did not have the sin nature and was not part of the MANY that were made sinners through adam.

The MANY that were made sinners through adam were all of mankind(all mankind that was born by virtue of a man's seed imparted into a woman)

Christ was NOT so in that fashion--if you say he was --you have some serious problems and really need to take some thought whether you even believe the gospel or have believed in vain!!!

 

[saturneptune]

You have no Scriptural basis for that statement!

I agree with you on that point. I read an article somewhere as to what would have happened to Adam and Eve if they had of eaten of the Tree of Life before leaving the garden. Some feel they would have lived forever even after sinning. However, there is no doubt in my mind, if they had never sinned (eaten of the other tree), that they would have physically lived forever.

 

[saturneptune]

Jesus Christ was of the seed of Mary and that is a Biblical fact. Being of the seed of Mary He was also the seed of David, Abraham, and Adam!

I also agree with that completely. This was the line that brought forth Jesus Christ, through Seth. As the generations passed, God declared who He favored and who He did not. It was a sovereign act on His part. He chose Isaac over Ishmael, Jacob (rotten as he was) over Esau, etc. Genesis 3:15 is the first real clue to the redemptive work of Jesus Christ.

 

[Winman]

im not arguing that point--what you have said is true!!!

im saying that He did not come by a man but by GOD himself--no man seed was put into mary to conceive Christ--But the overshadowing of the Holy Ghost is what put Christ in mary.

this my friend is completly different--and so forth he did not have the sin nature and was not part of the MANY that were made sinners through adam.

The MANY that were made sinners through adam were all of mankind(all mankind that was born by virtue of a man's seed imparted into a woman)

Christ was NOT so in that fashion--if you say he was --you have some serious problems and really need to take some thought whether you even believe the gospel or have believed in vain!!!

You are the one who has a problem, the scriptures say that Jesus came in the flesh, that he had the nature of the seed of Abraham, that he was tempted in all points as we are, yet without sin. God the Father cannot be tempted, so Jesus inherited his ability to be tempted from Mary his mother.

The scriptures say whoever denies that Jesus is come in the flesh is the spirit of anitchrist.

1 Jhn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

You better think carefully before you go around telling folks that Jesus did not have a completely human nature. Jesus was made from the seed of David, who was made of the seed of Adam.

 

[HisWitness]

You are the one who has a problem, the scriptures say that Jesus came in the flesh, that he had the nature of the seed of Abraham, that he was tempted in all points as we are, yet without sin. God the Father cannot be tempted, so Jesus inherited his ability to be tempted from Mary his mother.

The scriptures say whoever denies that Jesus is come in the flesh is the spirit of anitchrist.

1 Jhn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

You better think carefully before you go around telling folks that Jesus did not have a completely human nature. Jesus was made from the seed of David, who was made of the seed of Adam.

this will be my last post to you my friend

Jesus was FULLY MAN--yet FULLY GOD.
Jesus was tempted at all points as man is and really far beyond what man ever was tempted--but WITHOUT SIN.
Jesus did come in the FLESH.
Jesus was NOT a sinner like the rest of mankind was though.

you are as the jews when jesus came on the scene--you WILL NOT accept truth--but will abide by your own tradition you have came up with.

And Lie and bare false witness against them that oppose your traditions

I have stated to you what i believe--before you twisted my words and bare false witness against me saying i said i didnt believe jesus came in the flesh-when i did NO such thing.May the Light of the GLORIUS GOSPEL shine upon you brother

 

[Winman]

this will be my last post to you my friend

Jesus was FULLY MAN--yet FULLY GOD.
Jesus was tempted at all points as man is and really far beyond what man ever was tempted--but WITHOUT SIN.
Jesus did come in the FLESH.
Jesus was NOT a sinner like the rest of mankind was though.

you are as the jews when jesus came on the scene--you WILL NOT accept truth--but will abide by your own tradition you have came up with.

And Lie and bare false witness against them that oppose your traditions

I have stated to you what i believe--before you twisted my words and bare false witness against me saying i said i didnt believe jesus came in the flesh-when i did NO such thing.May the Light of the GLORIUS GOSPEL shine upon you brother

You have said Jesus had a different nature than us. This is FALSE.

Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Jesus took on himself the nature of the seed of Abraham. Abraham was born AFTER the so-called fall. If Abraham had a fallen sinful nature, then so did Jesus. I reject this, I do not believe men are born with a sin nature, but all men when they mature and understand right from wrong sin and "become" sinners.

Psa 14:3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

If you were born rich, would you tell people you had "become" rich? NO. But if you were born poor, but worked hard and became wealthy, then you would tell people you "became" rich. The scriptures are the same, they always show a man first upright, but then they "become" filthy.

We are not born with a sin nature and neither was Jesus. But Jesus was made of the seed of David and could be tempted. Jesus came in the flesh.

When you deny that Jesus was 100% human, you deny that he came in the flesh. This is that spirit of antichrist.

If that offends you, too bad, you should think about what you tell people.

 

[OldRegular]

I also agree with that completely. This was the line that brought forth Jesus Christ, through Seth. As the generations passed, God declared who He favored and who He did not. It was a sovereign act on His part. He chose Isaac over Ishmael, Jacob (rotten as he was) over Esau, etc. Genesis 3:15 is the first real clue to the redemptive work of Jesus Christ.

Well said!:thumbs: Most of the books of the Old Testament, written over a period of hundreds of years, track God's choice of some of Abraham's seed to the rejection of others. Not necessarily remarkable in one sense, since I believe God is the author, but it is comforting!

The story of the fall in Genesis 3, the provisional atonement God provided immediately for Adam and Eve, and the promise of the Redeemer in Genesis 3:15 are, at least to me, solid evidence of the reliability of Scripture!

 

[OldRegular]

Really!!

If adam would have ate of the tree of life he would have not died bodily.

That is why God put him from the garden so that would not happen.

Now he had access to that very same tree before his disobedince.

I do believe that tree did not change its effectiveness.

So if he wasnt going to die bodily already before the disobefience--what was the purpose and effect of eating the tree of life ???

I think its very clear here ,all you have to do is look at it

Adam was not made a eternal creature but was going to die bodily until or if he had of eaten of the tree of life!!!

And the sentence of DEATH was not only bodily(he was already going to die bodily)but also SOUL DEATH in HELL(grave) until the time of the judgement and resurrection and ALL mankind would be raised and judged

thats the DEATH that was to be defeated (the final enemy)

A vivid imagination does not Scripture make. I repeat: You have absolutely zero Scriptural evidence for your claim that Adam and Eve would have died absent their rebellion.

 

[OldRegular]

Jesus took on himself the nature of the seed of Abraham. Abraham was born AFTER the so-called fall. If Abraham had a fallen sinful nature, then so did Jesus. I reject this, I do not believe men are born with a sin nature, but all men when they mature and understand right from wrong sin and "become" sinners.

Why is Jesus Christ the only person of adult mind who never sinned?

 

[Winman]

Why is Jesus Christ the only person of adult mind who never sinned?

I would say because Jesus had perfect faith. But I doubt any answer I give you would suit you.

You believe Jesus was different from us and this is why he did not sin, but the scriptures make it very clear Jesus was just like us. God had to become a man and defeat sin and Satan as a man. Only a man could redeem men. When you and others say that Jesus was different, you are denying that he came in the flesh which the scriptures warn about.

I have showed you MUCH scripture to support all this. You can believe Augustine, or you can believe the scriptures, the choice is yours.