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Marcion the Heretic

Jason1

Member
Out of curiosity, Jason - who do you say Jesus is?
Rev 1:1 Revelation of Yeshua Messiah, which Elohim gave Him to show His servants what has to take place with speed. And He signified it by sending His messenger to His servant Yoḥanan,
Rev 1:2 who bore witness to the Word of Elohim, and the witness of Yeshua Messiah – to all he saw.
Rev 1:5 and from Yeshua Messiah, the trustworthy witness, the first-born from the dead, and the ruler of the sovereigns of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood,
Rev 1:6 and has made us sovereigns and priests to His Elohim and Father, to Him be esteem and rule forever and ever. Amĕn.
Rev 1:7 See, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye shall see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth shall mourn because of Him. Yes, Amĕn.
Rev 1:8 “I am the ‘Aleph’ and the ‘Taw’, Beginning and End,” says יהוה “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
 

Don

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Rev 1:1 Revelation of Yeshua Messiah, which Elohim gave Him to show His servants what has to take place with speed. And He signified it by sending His messenger to His servant Yoḥanan,
Rev 1:2 who bore witness to the Word of Elohim, and the witness of Yeshua Messiah – to all he saw.
Rev 1:5 and from Yeshua Messiah, the trustworthy witness, the first-born from the dead, and the ruler of the sovereigns of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood,
Rev 1:6 and has made us sovereigns and priests to His Elohim and Father, to Him be esteem and rule forever and ever. Amĕn.
Rev 1:7 See, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye shall see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth shall mourn because of Him. Yes, Amĕn.
Rev 1:8 “I am the ‘Aleph’ and the ‘Taw’, Beginning and End,” says יהוה “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
Yes; but that doesn't tell me who YOU say He is.
 

Don

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
So Jesus is God? I ask because the people you're discussing with seem to be indicating you believe differently; even though the verses you quoted seem pretty specific.
 

Jason1

Member
So Jesus is God? I ask because the people you're discussing with seem to be indicating you believe differently; even though the verses you quoted seem pretty specific.
Those people just want to discredit me and will lie to do it. The message of the prophets and Yeshua was always to return to the instructions of the Father and they do not wish to hear that (nor did israel, and thus they killed them).

Luk 9:26 “For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, of him the Son of Aḏam shall be ashamed when He comes in His esteem, and in His Father’s, and of the set-apart messengers.​
 

MennoSota

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jason denies that Jesus is God. Jason denies that the Holy Spirit is God.

Notice that you will never see Jason say this sentence.
"Jesus is God, YHWH himself."
Jason always pretzels around making a declarative statement.
Jason...I dare you to openly say "Jesus is God, YHWH himself."
 

Jason1

Member
Jason denies that Jesus is God. Jason denies that the Holy Spirit is God.

Notice that you will never see Jason say this sentence.
"Jesus is God, YHWH himself."
Jason always pretzels around making a declarative statement.
Jason...I dare you to openly say "Jesus is God, YHWH himself."
I'm not playing your games. You are not a good person on here.
 

Martin Marprelate

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Rev 1:1 Revelation of Yeshua Messiah, which Elohim gave Him to show His servants what has to take place with speed. And He signified it by sending His messenger to His servant Yoḥanan,
Rev 1:2 who bore witness to the Word of Elohim, and the witness of Yeshua Messiah – to all he saw.
Rev 1:5 and from Yeshua Messiah, the trustworthy witness, the first-born from the dead, and the ruler of the sovereigns of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood,
Rev 1:6 and has made us sovereigns and priests to His Elohim and Father, to Him be esteem and rule forever and ever. Amĕn.
Rev 1:7 See, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye shall see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth shall mourn because of Him. Yes, Amĕn.
Rev 1:8 “I am the ‘Aleph’ and the ‘Taw’, Beginning and End,” says יהוה “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
Why do you alter the Bible when you quote it?
 

Don

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Those people just want to discredit me and will lie to do it. The message of the prophets and Yeshua was always to return to the instructions of the Father and they do not wish to hear that (nor did israel, and thus they killed them).

Luk 9:26 “For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, of him the Son of Aḏam shall be ashamed when He comes in His esteem, and in His Father’s, and of the set-apart messengers.​
Please forgive me -- but you still haven't clarified. Jesus is God?
 

percho

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Can Romans 8:11 be written using, YHWH, instead of names, titles and pronouns and be understood?
 

Martin Marprelate

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
It's a copy paste out of the version "The Scriptures". I like it best since it restores the Father's name to its true form.
In what language were the New Testament Scriptures originally written?
What word does the NT use to describe God?
What word does the Lord Jesus use when He addresses the Father?
What is the proper translation of Revelation 1:8 from the original?
 

AndyMartin

Active Member
Trinity is man-made doctrine. The spirit of elohim is Elohim himself. Its not a hard concept.

And no, Yeshua didn't fulfill everything yet. His own mouth says until heaven and earth pass away not one jot or tittle will. Only preterists believe such things.

I don't even think you know what grace is, the purpose of the spirit, nor do you know what the new covenant is. You talk out of both sides of your mouth and then call me names for posting scripture calling for repentance. Who is the snake marcionsota?

Hello Jason, you say that the Doctrine of the Holy Trinity, is "man-made", which means that you reject this as being taught in the Holy Bible?

While I would admit that the actual term "Trinity" is no where in the Bible, but, what it means and teaches, is very clearly based on Bible Facts. The term itself is a compound word, from "tri=three", and (u)nity". This is use to show that though the Bible teaches that there is only One God, that is, the Godhead (Romans 1:20, "θειότης", "the divine nature"). The Bible also teaches that there are Three Persons Who are called "God", and are "coequal, coessential, and coeternal". The very first verse of Genesis chapter one, has, "in the beginning God created", where the Hebrew for "God", is "Elohim", which is masculine in gender, and plural in number. Some have thought that this simply means, "a plural of majesties", as in when the King or Queen of a country says "we", (the royal "we"). But verse 26 of this same chapter in Genesis, and other places, clearly show that "plurality of Persons" is meant, "Let US make man in OUR image". In Isaiah 54:5, God is referred to as "Maker", where the Hebrew is plural, "Makers", which can only be used to show that more than One Person is meant. Jesus Himself says in John 10:30, "ἐγὼ καὶ ὁ πατὴρ ἕν ἐσμεν", literally, "I and the Father one We are". Here we have Jesus as the Speaker, Who is seen as a "separate" Person to the Father, where the use of the Greek definite article, "ὁ" (the), is used for this purpose. We then have the use of the Greek, "ἕν", "one", which is in neuter in gender, and singular in number, literally "one thing", on in this context, "one essence". Then we have "ἐσμεν", which is masculine in gender, and plural in number, which shows the "plurality of Persons", Who are "united in essence". The fact that Jesus Christ is Almighty God, can be seen from Scriptures like Isaiah 9:6, where He is called, "el gibbor", that is, "Mighty God"; the same Title which is used for Yahweh (the Father), in Isaiah 10:21. In John 1:1, we read that "the Word was with God", where the use of the Greek preposition, "πρὸς", can only be used for more than one Person, as it denotes, "besides, in the presence of", "WITH God", making Jesus (the Word) a "separate" Person to the "God" (the Father) He was with. The verse then goes on to say, "καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος" (and God was the Word). John very carefully did not write, "καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος", which would have contradicted his previous statement, as this would have made the "Word", equivalent to the "Person" of the "God" Who He was "πρὸς", whereas the previous statement (καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν, = and the Word was with God), shows a "distinction in Persons". John, by not using the article "ὁ", with "θεὸς", is showing that the "Word", Jesus Christ, is Deity, in exactly the same way that the Father is. Here we have Two Persons Who are equally God. In Acts chapter 5 we read of the account of Ananias and Sapphira, who together lied about the sale of their possessions. Peter, in addressing this issue, says to Ananias, "why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Spirit" (v.3), and then goes on to say, "you hast not lied unto men, but unto God" (v.4), where the Greek has it, "τῷ θεῷ", which cannot be reduced to "god", or "a god", but has to read, "God". Thereby showing the Deity of the Holy Spirit. In Matthew 28:19, we read the words of Jesus Christ, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit". The Greek is very important here. We have the use of the singular, "τὸ ὄνομα" (the Name). Then, we have, "τοῦ πατρὸς καὶ τοῦ υἱοῦ καὶ τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος" (the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit), where the Greek article "τοῦ", is repeated, with each Person, which shows their "distinction". "τὸ ὄνομα", is used here as the equivalent to the Name that Moses was given by God, in Exodus 3:14-15, "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my Name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations". The Name here spoken of, is YHWH (Yahweh). The Father, Son and Holy Spirit have the same Name, YHWH, which makes them equally Almighty God.

This is the Biblical Teaching on the God of the Holy Bible. One Godhead, Three Persons.
 

Jason1

Member
Now he'll be searching for whatever significance could be in June 4th...

Lol
Oooh, Shavout. I totally wasn't thinking. I do commemorate the Lev 23 feast days but the pilgrimage three times per year is postponed since there is no temple to go to and actually appear before Him since His presence is not there anymore.
 

Jason1

Member
Hello Jason, you say that the Doctrine of the Holy Trinity, is "man-made", which means that you reject this as being taught in the Holy Bible?

While I would admit that the actual term "Trinity" is no where in the Bible, but, what it means and teaches, is very clearly based on Bible Facts. The term itself is a compound word, from "tri=three", and (u)nity". This is use to show that though the Bible teaches that there is only One God, that is, the Godhead (Romans 1:20, "θειότης", "the divine nature"). The Bible also teaches that there are Three Persons Who are called "God", and are "coequal, coessential, and coeternal". The very first verse of Genesis chapter one, has, "in the beginning God created", where the Hebrew for "God", is "Elohim", which is masculine in gender, and plural in number. Some have thought that this simply means, "a plural of majesties", as in when the King or Queen of a country says "we", (the royal "we"). But verse 26 of this same chapter in Genesis, and other places, clearly show that "plurality of Persons" is meant, "Let US make man in OUR image". In Isaiah 54:5, God is referred to as "Maker", where the Hebrew is plural, "Makers", which can only be used to show that more than One Person is meant. Jesus Himself says in John 10:30, "ἐγὼ καὶ ὁ πατὴρ ἕν ἐσμεν", literally, "I and the Father one We are". Here we have Jesus as the Speaker, Who is seen as a "separate" Person to the Father, where the use of the Greek definite article, "ὁ" (the), is used for this purpose. We then have the use of the Greek, "ἕν", "one", which is in neuter in gender, and singular in number, literally "one thing", on in this context, "one essence". Then we have "ἐσμεν", which is masculine in gender, and plural in number, which shows the "plurality of Persons", Who are "united in essence". The fact that Jesus Christ is Almighty God, can be seen from Scriptures like Isaiah 9:6, where He is called, "el gibbor", that is, "Mighty God"; the same Title which is used for Yahweh (the Father), in Isaiah 10:21. In John 1:1, we read that "the Word was with God", where the use of the Greek preposition, "πρὸς", can only be used for more than one Person, as it denotes, "besides, in the presence of", "WITH God", making Jesus (the Word) a "separate" Person to the "God" (the Father) He was with. The verse then goes on to say, "καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος" (and God was the Word). John very carefully did not write, "καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος", which would have contradicted his previous statement, as this would have made the "Word", equivalent to the "Person" of the "God" Who He was "πρὸς", whereas the previous statement (καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν, = and the Word was with God), shows a "distinction in Persons". John, by not using the article "ὁ", with "θεὸς", is showing that the "Word", Jesus Christ, is Deity, in exactly the same way that the Father is. Here we have Two Persons Who are equally God. In Acts chapter 5 we read of the account of Ananias and Sapphira, who together lied about the sale of their possessions. Peter, in addressing this issue, says to Ananias, "why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Spirit" (v.3), and then goes on to say, "you hast not lied unto men, but unto God" (v.4), where the Greek has it, "τῷ θεῷ", which cannot be reduced to "god", or "a god", but has to read, "God". Thereby showing the Deity of the Holy Spirit. In Matthew 28:19, we read the words of Jesus Christ, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit". The Greek is very important here. We have the use of the singular, "τὸ ὄνομα" (the Name). Then, we have, "τοῦ πατρὸς καὶ τοῦ υἱοῦ καὶ τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος" (the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit), where the Greek article "τοῦ", is repeated, with each Person, which shows their "distinction". "τὸ ὄνομα", is used here as the equivalent to the Name that Moses was given by God, in Exodus 3:14-15, "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my Name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations". The Name here spoken of, is YHWH (Yahweh). The Father, Son and Holy Spirit have the same Name, YHWH, which makes them equally Almighty God.

This is the Biblical Teaching on the God of the Holy Bible. One Godhead, Three Persons.

The Spirit is the power and essence of the Father and/or the Son. There is no third person. This reads too much into the text and denies that the Father is a spirit and that He is set-apart (holy). I believe this position makes 100x more sense.
 
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