I am having some difficulty dealing with Mark 15:25 and John 19:14-17. There seems to be a contradiction here. As a Christian, I know this is impossible, but it's leaving me in a dilemma trying to reconcile the two. He couldn't be crucified at the third hour if his trial wass over at the sixth hour. One text says He was crucified at the 3rd hour, the other at the 6th. Help me to understand this.
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Mark 15:25 and John 19:14-17
- Thread starter JerryL
- Start date
Actually the opposite...
Here is the note from my trusty old Rice reference Bible-
'The Jewish twelve-hour day began at sun-up. Therefore Jesus was crucified at about 9:00 a.m., and died about 3:00 p.m. John, however, writing long after the Jewish nation was destroyed and scattered, counted from midnight, as was the Roman custom. He stated that Jesus was before Pilate at the sixth hour, which would have been 6 a.m. It was so early that Pilate's wife had gone back to sleep and dreamed about the innocent Man on trial.'
Here is the note from my trusty old Rice reference Bible-
'The Jewish twelve-hour day began at sun-up. Therefore Jesus was crucified at about 9:00 a.m., and died about 3:00 p.m. John, however, writing long after the Jewish nation was destroyed and scattered, counted from midnight, as was the Roman custom. He stated that Jesus was before Pilate at the sixth hour, which would have been 6 a.m. It was so early that Pilate's wife had gone back to sleep and dreamed about the innocent Man on trial.'
When studying this, another thing keeps popping up at me.
Mark 16:1 When the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James and Salome bought spices, so that they might go and anoint him. 2 And very early on the first day of the week, when the sun had risen, they went to the tomb.
Joh 20:1 Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene came to the tomb early, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb.
It is getting confusing.
Mark 16:1 When the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James and Salome bought spices, so that they might go and anoint him. 2 And very early on the first day of the week, when the sun had risen, they went to the tomb.
Joh 20:1 Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene came to the tomb early, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb.
It is getting confusing.
2 Timothy2:1-4
New Member
When the sun begins to peak trhough the darkness it is till dark out. When Mary and Mary started out it could have been at the begining of the dawn which would have been very dusk even thought the sun was showing. By the time they actually arived at the tomb it could have been much brighter as the sun would have had time to rise higher making it lighter.
This is not an issue for confusion.
This is not an issue for confusion.
JerryL said:
Well, according to Vine's the Greek actually reads in Mark 16:1, "at the rising of the sun".
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Geneva]A.T. Robertson says, "Mark (Mark 16:2) says the sun was risen on their actual arrival. She started from the house while still dark." And,[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Geneva][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Geneva]"When the sun was risen (anateilantov tou hliou). Genitive absolute, aorist participle, though some manuscripts read anatellontov, present participle. Luke 24:1 has it "at early dawn" (ortrou bateov) and John 20:1 "while it was yet dark." It was some two miles from Bethany to the tomb. Mark himself gives both notes of time, "very early" (lian prwi), "when the sun was risen." Probably they started while it was still dark and the sun was coming up when they arrived at the tomb."[/FONT][/FONT]
2 Timothy2:1-4 said:
For me it is beacause, Mark 16:2 makes it plain that the "sun had risen", not in the process of it.
Mat 28:1 Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave.
Mar 16:1 When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, bought spices, so that they might come and anoint Him.
Mar 16:2 Very early on the first day of the week, they *came to the tomb when the sun had risen.
Luk 24:1 But on the first day of the week, at early dawn, they came to the tomb bringing the spices which they had prepared.
Joh 20:1 Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene *came early to the tomb, while it *was still dark, and *saw the stone already taken away from the tomb.
Going by John it was dark. Going by Mark the sun "had" risen, no chance of dark when it "had" risen.
The order of events, combining the four narratives, is that during the early morning hours:
Three women, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and Salome, start for the sepulchre, followed by other women bearing spices. The three find the stone rolled away, and Mary Magdalene goes to tell the disciples, as seen in:
(Luk_23:55-24); (Luk_23:9); (Joh_20:1); (Joh_20:2). Mary, the mother of James and Joses, draws nearer the tomb and sees the angel of the Lord (Mat_28:2). She goes back to meet the other women following with the spices. Meanwhile Peter and John, warned by Mary Magdalene, arrive, look in, and go away (Joh_20:3-10). Mary Magdalene returns weeping, sees the two angels and then Jesus (Joh_20:11-18) and goes as He bade her to tell the disciples. Mary (mother of James and Joses), meanwhile, has met the women with the spices and, returning with them, they see the two angels. (Luk_24:4); (Luk_24:5); (Mar_16:5). They also receive the angelic message, and, going to seek the disciples, are met by Jesus. (Mat_28:8-10).
Three women, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and Salome, start for the sepulchre, followed by other women bearing spices. The three find the stone rolled away, and Mary Magdalene goes to tell the disciples, as seen in:
(Luk_23:55-24); (Luk_23:9); (Joh_20:1); (Joh_20:2). Mary, the mother of James and Joses, draws nearer the tomb and sees the angel of the Lord (Mat_28:2). She goes back to meet the other women following with the spices. Meanwhile Peter and John, warned by Mary Magdalene, arrive, look in, and go away (Joh_20:3-10). Mary Magdalene returns weeping, sees the two angels and then Jesus (Joh_20:11-18) and goes as He bade her to tell the disciples. Mary (mother of James and Joses), meanwhile, has met the women with the spices and, returning with them, they see the two angels. (Luk_24:4); (Luk_24:5); (Mar_16:5). They also receive the angelic message, and, going to seek the disciples, are met by Jesus. (Mat_28:8-10).
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canadyjd
Well-Known Member
JerryL
Seems like they all say the same thing to me. It was very early; dawn. Mary M. perhaps came earlier than the rest (while it was still dark) and saw the stone rolled away.
Do these differences cause you to reject the authority of scripture? Just curious. You seem to be stumbling over grains of sand on the beach when an ocean of God's Word in front of you waiting to plunged into.
peace to you
raying:
Seems like they all say the same thing to me. It was very early; dawn. Mary M. perhaps came earlier than the rest (while it was still dark) and saw the stone rolled away.
Do these differences cause you to reject the authority of scripture? Just curious. You seem to be stumbling over grains of sand on the beach when an ocean of God's Word in front of you waiting to plunged into.
peace to you
raying:You have a difference in writters perspective here. Note the similarities that quantify the same time period but differing perspectives with regard to the illumination of the sun and it's point of reference.JerryL said:
- It began to dawn toward the first day (Matt)
- Came early (John)
- They left very early (Mark) with regard to When the Sabbath was over
- At early dawn (Luke)
You can also parellel each of these illistrations to the typography of what they experieced concerning the illumination at the tomb and what the author was conveying in relation to how they veiwed Christ (Matt - King of the Jews, Mark - Suffering Servant, Luke - Savior to all, John - God)
Matt - began to dawn the first day (So it was also for Jesus as the proven King)
Mark - Sabboth was over (rest) and it was Very early - No rest for the weary (suffering servant)
Luke - At early dawn (just before dawn)- Just like our salvation was written from the foundation of the world, Christ was our Savior. He was Savior before the dawning or forming of the world
John - Came early for it was dark - God is not there and where God is not there is no light. But the Sun (sic) of God HAD risen it was just they had not seen His light yet.
Granted these are merely illistrative from my own mind but it is stange how they correlate to the what the writter was trying to convey to his audiance. Either way what I am stating is that the luminesence of the sun with respect to how bright it was depended on how the arthor percieved his surroundings. They obviously left very early and arrived just at or around the complete rising of the sun.