marriage not historically religious

[TisHerself]

Originally posted by dianetavegia:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by TisHerself:
I don't see how it is telling our youth any such thing. Also, if you take that scripture and apply it to today's law, I guess you are saying that since abortion is currently legal, it is sanctioned by God! I hardly think so.

God's law always takes precedence over man's law and NO WHERE does it say 'tho shalt not marry or get a piece of paper to marry'. It does say 'thou shalt not kill' and includes adultery, fornication, etc. Of course, I'm not into Metal bands either and don't think God much would care for them either. </font>[/QUOTE]Hmmmmm... you profess to know what God would like in music. I personally know several metal Christian band members and they are as solid as the rock they lean on! And they have done wonderful things with their ministry! They have brought young people into the church in droves!

How do you feel about coloring your hair or wearing makeup? What do you think God feels about that sort of thing?

 

[Thankful]

I'm very sorry to say we have a number of members who are living together, have numerous children and are not legally married.

I may be wrong, but I believe this is the statement in question, not the scripture.

Who are the "we"? Your church, this Board, what members?

How does one know that there are many members of "?" who are not legally married and have children?

This is knowledge that I don't need to know and that constitutes gossip in my opinion.

Perhaps this should have been phrased in a more generic way.

"People who are not legally married should not live together" However, it is probably possible, although I do not advocate it,that a couple who lives together and has children without "legal documents" can be just as true to each other as ones who do and be "married in God's eyes". I cannot be the judge of those relationships. And by the way, how many times od we show that "legal document" to prove that couples are married.

Do churches ask for marriage licenses for their members?

Now back to the opening post, God provided for marriage between a man and a woman. However, He did not outline a specific ceremony.

 

[TisHerself]

Originally posted by Thankful:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> I'm very sorry to say we have a number of members who are living together, have numerous children and are not legally married.

I may be wrong, but I believe this is the statement in question, not the scripture.

Who are the "we"? Your church, this Board, what members?

How does one know that there are many members of "?" who are not legally married and have children?

This is knowledge that I don't need to know and that constitutes gossip in my opinion.

Perhaps this should have been phrased in a more generic way.

"People who are not legally married should not live together" However, it is probably possible, although I do not advocate it,that a couple who lives together and has children without "legal documents" can be just as true to each other as ones who do and be "married in God's eyes". I cannot be the judge of those relationships. And by the way, how many times od we show that "legal document" to prove that couples are married.

Do churches ask for marriage licenses for their members?

Now back to the opening post, God provided for marriage between a man and a woman. However, He did not outline a specific ceremony. </font>[/QUOTE]Hello Thankful! And bless you for your kind and considerate post. You strike me as a fine lady and I'm so happy you are here!

 

[dianetavegia]

Originally posted by Magnetic Poles:
So Diane, according to these verses, had you been living in Germany in the 1930s-1940s you would have been bound by God to support the Third Reich? They were the legitimate government, and must have been given that authority by God. To not support them and their genocide of Jews would have been to rebel against the almighty.

Please explain. You have me a bit confused here.

God's law always takes precedence over man's law. Quite clear!

To not support them and their genocide of Jews would have been to rebel against the almighty.

To say this is to say God endorsed murder, in my humble opinion.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

So you WOULD have supported the National Socialist Party in the situation described?

What about people under opposing regimes, say Iraqis under Hussein and Americans under Bush?

 

[dianetavegia]

Originally posted by Magnetic Poles:
So you WOULD have supported the National Socialist Party in the situation described?

What about people under opposing regimes, say Iraqis under Hussein and Americans under Bush?

Reading is fundamental. GOD's LAWS come first, over any law! Does that NOT make sense to you? If it's wrong, scripturally, then it doesn't matter what the law says. Abortion, adultery, fornication, lying, cheating, coveting, homosexuality, etc.... No matter what the govt. says, it's wrong and I won't endorse it or participate in it.

Getting married is NOT against God's law and IS required for a legal marriage. In this instance, God and man agree.

Now, we have a tornado warning (siren) and my son is freaking out so I have to head to the basement room with him now. Not a hit and run.

 

[TisHerself]

Originally posted by dianetavegia:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Magnetic Poles:
So Diane, according to these verses, had you been living in Germany in the 1930s-1940s you would have been bound by God to support the Third Reich? They were the legitimate government, and must have been given that authority by God. To not support them and their genocide of Jews would have been to rebel against the almighty.

Please explain. You have me a bit confused here.

God's law always takes precedence over man's law. Quite clear!

To not support them and their genocide of Jews would have been to rebel against the almighty.

To say this is to say God endorsed murder, in my humble opinion. </font>[/QUOTE]Then you are saying that the Bible is our guideline and not completely and literally transferable? That we still need to use our best judgement?

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Well, Diane, you are the one stating that governmental authorities are ministers of God. I am truly not trying to be argumentitive. I just don't see how you can have it both ways.

 

[TisHerself]

Originally posted by dianetavegia:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Magnetic Poles:
So you WOULD have supported the National Socialist Party in the situation described?

What about people under opposing regimes, say Iraqis under Hussein and Americans under Bush?

Reading is fundamental. GOD's LAWS come first, over any law! Does that NOT make sense to you? If it's wrong, scripturally, then it doesn't matter what the law says. Abortion, adultery, fornication, lying, cheating, coveting, homosexuality, etc.... No matter what the govt. says, it's wrong and I won't endorse it or participate in it.

Getting married is NOT against God's law and IS required for a legal marriage. In this instance, God and man agree.

Now, we have a tornado warning (siren) and my son is freaking out so I have to head to the basement room with him now. Not a hit and run. </font>[/QUOTE]Oh my! God be with you, Diane!

 

[TisHerself]

Originally posted by Magnetic Poles:
Well, Diane, you are the one stating that governmental authorities are ministers of God. I am truly not trying to be argumentitive. I just don't see how you can have it both ways.

I don't see that either, MP. If one is to take the Bilbe literally, then you must take it literally to the nth degree, right? So then, where does it say that God's law takes precedence over man's law? And who is to judge that?

My brain hurts! hehe!

 

[dianetavegia]

Originally posted by dianetavegia:


Scripture says:

Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4 For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. 5 Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience' sake. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God's ministers attending continually to this very thing.

Titus 3:1 Remind them to be subject to rulers and authorities, to obey, to be ready for every good work, 2 to speak evil of no one, to be peaceable, gentle, showing all humility to all men. 3 For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another. 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. 8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I want you to affirm constantly, that those who have believed in God should be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable to men.

Don't like what the BIBLE says? Take it up with the author.

 

[TisHerself]

Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.

Then, Diane, as I said, you would be going against God if you were to stand firm against abortion laws when abortion is legal? How do you have it both ways? Where does it say that God's own laws take precidence? I guess Bill Clinton was appointed by God too! And Richard Nixon... and LBJ... and JFK...

 

[dianetavegia]

Originally posted by TisHerself:


Then, Diane, as I said, you would be going against God if you were to stand firm against abortion laws when abortion is legal?

You REALLY have a problem with understanding what you read.

God says thou shalt not kill. Abortion is murder. Even tho the U.S. law says I or my daughter can have an abortion, we would not because it is sin. God's LAW overrides all other laws.

Diane

 

[computerjunkie]

Originally posted by Thankful:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> I'm very sorry to say we have a number of members who are living together, have numerous children and are not legally married.

I may be wrong, but I believe this is the statement in question, not the scripture.

Who are the "we"? Your church, this Board, what members?

How does one know that there are many members of "?" who are not legally married and have children?

This is knowledge that I don't need to know and that constitutes gossip in my opinion.</font>[/QUOTE]I agree, Thankful.

I do not have a problem with the discussion on this thread. In fact, I find it very enlightening. What I DO object to is someone making a carte blanc statement about members of BB.

If someone has publicly stated on the board that they are living with someone to whom they are not "legally married", fine. If not, then a broad-brush statement like this is gossip and is wrong, in my personal opinion.

Several weeks ago, TexasSky posted a thread in the General Baptist Discussion forum called "Opinions Please". Feel free to look at that thread and see what people on this board think of gossip.

There seems to be quite a double-standard here.

Carry on,
CJ

 

[TisHerself]

Originally posted by dianetavegia:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by TisHerself:


Then, Diane, as I said, you would be going against God if you were to stand firm against abortion laws when abortion is legal?

You REALLY have a problem with understanding what you read.

God says thou shalt not kill. Abortion is murder. Even tho the U.S. law says I or my daughter can have an abortion, we would not because it is sin. God's LAW overrides all other laws.

Diane </font>[/QUOTE]WELL EXCUUUUUUUSE ME! It seems you are the one with a lack in remedial reading skills! Look at the question again and show me where you answered it. Then climb down off your high horse and enlighten me, mmmmkay? sheesh!

 

[Baptist in Richmond]

Originally posted by Hardsheller:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Baptist in Richmond:
Not sure I follow you here, LadyEagle.
The fact that it was mentioned in no way implies that this is a religious ceremony, or that it is not a civil contract.[/qb]

Well let's see If I can clarify it for you BIR.

God, That would be The Creator, Father, Lord, etc; certainly recognized as a Religious Figure, Created the Universe.

When a Religious Figure creates something out of nothing is what He created religious in nature or secular in nature?

When He created Man and then Created Woman to be his Helpmate was this relationship he had in mind religious or secular in nature? </font>[/QUOTE]Thanks for that, hardsheller, except you didn't answer my question. As a matter of fact, your attempt to "clarify it for [me]" contains not one but two questions.

Let me try again:
The fact that it was mentioned in no way implies that this is a religious ceremony, or that it is not a civil contract.

Hope you are well,
BiR (still in BEAUTIFUL Summit, NJ)

 

[dianetavegia]

Agree that Christians should be above reproach and living together outside legal matrimony is living in constant fornication.

What sort of example is this thread sending to our youth? We tell them to wait until marriage to have relations and then tell them 'what's in their heart is more important' than following the law and God's example in Genesis, as Hardsheller pointed out so well!


Sorry folks. I closed this last night and left a message for someone to reopen it in a few mins. and I forgot all about it.

 

[Hardsheller]

Originally posted by Baptist in Richmond:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Hardsheller:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Baptist in Richmond:
Not sure I follow you here, LadyEagle.
The fact that it was mentioned in no way implies that this is a religious ceremony, or that it is not a civil contract.

Well let's see If I can clarify it for you BIR.

God, That would be The Creator, Father, Lord, etc; certainly recognized as a Religious Figure, Created the Universe.

When a Religious Figure creates something out of nothing is what He created religious in nature or secular in nature?

When He created Man and then Created Woman to be his Helpmate was this relationship he had in mind religious or secular in nature? </font>[/QUOTE]Thanks for that, hardsheller, except you didn't answer my question. As a matter of fact, your attempt to "clarify it for [me]" contains not one but two questions.

Let me try again:
The fact that it was mentioned in no way implies that this is a religious ceremony, or that it is not a civil contract.

Hope you are well,
BiR (still in BEAUTIFUL Summit, NJ) [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]BIR,

Let me put it down on a lower shelf.

God is present. Adam is present. Eve is Present.
Eve is called Adam's Wife in God's Book.
God is the Supreme Religious Personality in the Universe.
Therefore the usage of the word Wife in His Book logically implies RELIGIOUS Context.

Any more questions?

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by billwald:
Marriage was origionally a civil contract between tribal leaders made for economic and political reasons.

Mariage was also originally a private covenant between a man, a woman, and God (Gee Genesis 1-2).

Jesus didn't go to the wedding to officiate as a rabbi. He went to a party.

Presuming it as a common Jewish wedding, a Rabbi would have performed the ceremony.

The Roman govt began to register marriages because a Roman citizenship was very valuable and falsly claiming it was a death penalty.

Civil registration of marriages is a completely separate issue from the spiritual covenant of marriage. Completely separate.

 

[billwald]

The governing authorities in the USofA are The Supreme Court.