This is the issue most often times. When it comes to us vs them loyalty is what the groups value (it was true with the Civil Rights movement and it is true with politics). The reason is the feeling is often that criticism weakens the whole.
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Martin Luther King Jr. and influences on Black churches
- Thread starter JonC
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RighteousnessTemperance&
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The context of your quote is the attached paper. So, yes, taken in context, the quote is indicative of rejection of the Virgin Birth.Yes, we have plenty of examples of those who were near a great person, who cashed in by telling unsubstantiated faults.
As far as doing "research" how do we know all those items are not planted by FBI operatives. We have seen what can go on within the FBI, such as a lack of commitment to truth.
Here is one of MLK's "denials" of Christianity: "The evidence for the virgin birth is too shallow for any objective thinker." Does this indicate rejection of the virgin birth on faith? Nope.
Another point of his was that to waste time arguing about the seeming conflict between scripture and science takes us away for Christian living, where we seek justice for all. Isn't that just awful.
Not that the Episcopal Church is any better.
Given the high respect and influence of the black pastors during segregation ( so many other options were closed ) it is not surprising that so many unsaved men chose this path. ie , Adam Clayton Powell, Jesse Jackson, Obama's Wright. etc
Now there are many more options for ambitious black people. .
Now there are many more options for ambitious black people. .
I should say more:
I grew up in the deep south. I went to segregated schools, the blacks could not vote, separate drinking fountains,seperate waiting rooms at the clinic of the Jewish doctor who graciously saw black patients, I can go on and on
MLK knew that his advocacy could lead to his death and so it did . He was a brave and great man in many respects. Great men many times have great flaws.
I grew up in the deep south. I went to segregated schools, the blacks could not vote, separate drinking fountains,seperate waiting rooms at the clinic of the Jewish doctor who graciously saw black patients, I can go on and on
MLK knew that his advocacy could lead to his death and so it did . He was a brave and great man in many respects. Great men many times have great flaws.
Read some of his "sermons". They reflect this idea of doing good regardless of the personal sacrifices (he even indicated death a very real possibility in confronting evil).
He taught Jesus had no idea of the cross (until facing arrest) but was completely dedicated to doing God's will regardless of the implications. And that was how he lived his life in regards to social justice issues.
I do not mean this thread to downplay MLK. Some of our great leaders, men who have impacted our nation - and the world - were not Christians.
In the case if MLK, the Christians were far too silent to the injustice around (and within) them. This is true today as well.
I was just amazed at how many consider him a Christian given his views of Christ.
Thankfully, I'm glad this is just an obscure board with opinions that have no bearing on how the Black church and the rest of the world celebrate this Black prophet.
His father was the pastor at Ebenezer Baptist in Atlanta. His father grandfathered him in. There were a lot of liberal clergy after WW II. It’s an old story. Remember Darwin’s family was trying to get him a church job but he solved his money problems by marrying into his relatives who owned Wedgewood. MLK Jr. gained respectability by having his father get him ordained. We all know now that MLK was not Christian in his beliefs from his own writings and speeches. He is not called Rev. so much anymore.
RINOs such as Romney want jobs, favors, and privileges but they give nothing in return. Romney should just go ahead and change parties. He is not that capable.
It would have been back then. Romney married up and then drug his wife down to his level.
MLK too a lot of indirect money from the Marxists himself.
I do not read it as "indicative of the rejection of the Virgin Birth." MLK concludes that the origin of Jesus is a mystery.
And another point, the paper apparently got an "A" and therefore was probably aligned with the Professor's views. Lots of folks write stuff to match the Professor in order to get a good grade.
We usually disagree Sir, but your point here is well taken, in my opinion. Communists, no matter the name of the day, vilify the icons of America, Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, Kennedy, and King.
You are wrong (not about the board but about the world).
MLK should be recognized and his work with the Civil rights movement celebrated.
But most of the world looks to MLK in that context - not for his Christianity but for his humanity.
MLK shows us a failure of the Church as she stood by in her communities participating in the racism she shoukd have opposed by being a light exposing the darkness of racism.
We cannot pretend MLK was a Christian as he considered supernatural salvation to be a mythological articulation of Cheist by a less scientific world. This is more than liberal theology. It is heresy (it removes one from being Christian).
There have been several writings from MLK (complete writings) demonstrating he was not a Christian. Your argument that he was is not based on evidence (you failed to provide an example of him recasting what he had previously affirmed) but on a cultlike following.
Black History (a romanticized version) is your "rebel flag" and its leaders your "Confederate monuments". You cry about White people who deny the reality of a history they romanticize yet do the exact same thing.
Pot, meet Kettle.
Can you provide a link to the article written by MLK that supports this?
MLK was not a prophet of God in any reapect
He was not inspired, if that is your meaning. That he was a spokesperson of God, teaching love your enemies, and do good to those who persecute you is undeniable.
Ghandi said those things as well. Was he a faithful prophet of the Lord?
Yes. These were not articles but the writings of Martin Luther King Jr. while at Crozer seminary. There are several where MLK states that Jesus was not born of a virgin, was not God, did not physically rise from the dead, is not coming again bodily and there is no bodily resurrection. His reasoning is akin to that of liberal theologians (that his disciples could not articulate Christ in any other way, but the expression is not literal to the events). MLK stated that the disciples recognized Christ as "divine" or the "son of God" because he had opened himself up to the "spirit of God" and was Jewish, but did not hold a Jewish mentality about humanity. They, according to MLK, reconciled this biologically because they had no concept of science as we know it.
The papers are here: The Martin Luther King, Jr., Research and Education Institute
Here is one example from his writings at Crozer:
"The orthodox attempt to explain the divinity of Jesus in terms of an inherent metaphysical substance within him seems to me quite inadaquate. To say that the Christ, whose example of living we are bid to follow, is divine in an ontological sense is actually harmful and detrimental. To invest this Christ with such supernatural qualities makes the rejoinder: “Oh, well, he had a better chance for that kind of life than we can possible have.” In other words, one could easily use this as a means to hide behind behind his failures. So that the orthodox view of the divinity of Christ is in my mind quite readily denied. The true significance of the divinity of Christ lies in the fact that his achievement is prophetic and promissory for every other true son of man who is willing to submit his will to the will and spirit og God. Christ was to be only the prototype of one among many brothers."
"The Humanity and Divinity of Jesus"
He also preached an Easter sermon at his church (Dexter Avenue in Montgomery AL) where he describes how orthodox Christianity came to hold the myth of a bodily resurrection and eternal life (he attributed bodily resurrection to Hebrew philosophy and an eternal spirit to Greek philosophy brought into the faith by Paul). So MLK could speak of the Resurrection and the Empty Tomb, but his meaning was very different from a Christian meaning. He understood the expression of a bodily resurrection to be a mythological representation of the truths (the "spirit of God") living on after Christ's death. The "second coming" therefore occurs when a man is opened to those truths.
"Whatever you believe about the Resurrection this morning isn’t important. The form that you believe in, that isn’t the important thing. The fact that the revelation, Resurrection is something that nobody can refute, that is the important thing. Some people felt, the disciples felt, that it was a physical resurrection, that the physical body got up. Then Paul came on the scene, who had been trained in Greek philosophy, who knew a little about Greek philosophy and had read a little, probably, of Plato and others who believed in the immortality of the soul, and he tried to synthesize the Greek doctrine of the immortality of the soul with the Jewish-Hebrew doctrine of resurrection. And he talked, as you remember and you read it, about a spiritual body. A spiritual body. Whatever form, that isn’t important right now. The important thing is that that Resurrection did occur. Important thing is that that grave was empty. Important thing is the fact that Jesus had given himself to certain eternal truths and eternal principles that nobody could crucify and escape. So all of the nails in the world could never pierce this truth. All of the crosses of the world could never block this love. All of the graves in the world could never bury this goodness. Jesus had given himself to certain universal principles. And so today the Jesus and the God that we worship are inescapable." A Walk Through the Holy Land, Easter Sunday Sermon Delivered at Dexter Avenue Baptist Church
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