Matthew 24, 25 - Not to Christians??

Five Judgements

The Lord God is a judging God

"To judge" can mean three things in the Holy Bible:

A. to discern between good and evil (human function)
B. to condemn, usually falsely (human function)
C. to reward the just & punish the evil (Godly function)

The Five Judgements:

1. Believers for SIN on the Cross
WHO: All who will Believe
WHEN: 33AD
WHERE: Jerusalem
WHY: The Lord God is a merciful God.
HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
WHAT: found innocent by the Bood of Jesus

How to get from judgement 1 to judgement 2
(and avoid judgements 3, 4, or 5):

Romans 10:9 (KJV): "That if thou
shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt
believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from
the dead, thou shalt be saved."

2. Judgement Seat of Christ
WHO: Believers for works
WHEN: during the Great Tribulation on earth;
Right after the Rapture/Resurrection that starts
the Tribulation
WHERE: Heaven
WHY: to assign rewards (including
the Millinnial Kingdom rest)
to the redeemed for their good works
HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
WHAT: found innocent by the Bood of Jesus

3. Judgement of Yisrael under Antichrist
(Ezekiel 22:17-22 Time of Jacob's Trouble; Ezekiel 20:34-38;
Jeremiah 30:1-24; Revelation 6-19)
WHO: Yisrael
WHEN: during the Tribulation
WHERE: earth
WHY: The Lord God fulfills His promises
HOW: The wrath of God by Messiah Jesus
WHAT: Great Tribulation

4. Throne of His Glory judgement
(AKA: Sheep and Goat Nations judgement, Matthew 25:31-46,
2 Cor 5:10, 1 Cor 3:11-15)
WHO: the nations: the living surviver nations of the Great Tribulation
(these people are NOT saved, they are human in human bodies)
WHEN: after the Great Tribulation, before the Millennial Age
WHERE: Jerusalem
WHY: The Lord God fulfills His promises: God will bless those
who bless Yisrael and curse those who curse Yisrael
HOW: Judged by their treatment of Yisrael
WHAT: the cursed nations to Hell; the blessed nations
to the Millennial Messanic KingdomAge

5. Great White Throne judgement
(Revelation 20:11:15)
WHO: the wicked dead
WHEN: after the Millennial Age; before endless ages
WHERE: between Hell and the Lake of Fire
WHY: The Lord God is not mocked
HOW: The wrath of God by Messiah Jesus
WHAT: the Messiah rejectors consigned to endless punishment

NOTE: The delineation of the five revealed
judgements above does not preclude other specific
or general judgements. One place on the net i found
a chart where TWENTY-FOUR judgements were delineated.
The Lord God is a judging God and His hand is not shortened
by His revelation to us nor
by our understaning of His revelation to us.

May Jesus our Savior and our Lord be Praised!

--compilation by ed,
incurable Jesus Phreaque

 

Matt.24 to Christians?

Ed Edwards,

Instead of accepting the "word of the Lord that He will raise up
every believer on the last day and that all the Saints will come
with Him at His Presence",

You affirm:

"The main sign of THE END OF THE AGE is elapsed time.The main sign of the Coming of the Lord Jesus in Power & Judgement is THE 7-year Tribulation that preceeds it".

The main sign of the End of the Age is "THE SIGN" of His Presence
when "all things are fulfilled on the last day"! Matt.24:30. Your doctrine
of ELAPSED TIME is hocus pocus because, even during the great
tribulation, we still will not know the DAY or the HOUR of His coming!

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

Hello,

I know many of various eschatalogical persuasions have already replied to this, but I wonder if the answer is not much more straightforward.

Could it be that your unnamed "informer" thinks that the word "disciple" only refers to those first followers of our Lord? If that were true, then no theological device would be necessary; we would just say, "Jesus was talking to His disciples, not to all Christians."

But biblically, we find the word "disciples" (like the word "saint", incidentally) being used of all Christians, and if that is so, then to say that words addressed to disciples are not meant for Christians just does not make sense.

Imagine a situation in a school classroom. The teacher says, "Children, I want you all to stand up." Some pupils remain seated. The teacher asks them, "Why are you not standing, like the rest of the class?" What nonsense it would be for the seated pupils to say, "You addressed your words to children. We are boys and girls, so we took no notice."

Christians are Christ's disciples.

Every blessing,

 

Amen, David Lamb -- Preach it! :thumbs:

Both statements are correct and come from the Bible:

--------------------------------------
Comparing the rapture/resurrection (R) AKA: gathering
with the Second Advent (SC): when Jesus comes
to destroy the Antichrist and set up the
Millennial Messanic Kingdom AKA: Glorious Appearance.

1R. Jesus comes for His own ( given physical bodies)
(John 14:3, 1 Thess 4:17)
1SC. Jesus comes with His own (already have physical bodies) (Rev 19:14)

2R. Jesus comes in the air (1 Thes 4:17)
2SC. Jesus comes to the earth
(Zech 14:4-5, Acts 1:11)

3R. Jesus comes to claim His Bride
(1 Thess 4:16-17)
3SC. Jesus comes with His Bride
(Rev 19:6-14)

4R. end of the Gentile Age
(Matthew 24:3, 24:31-44)
4SC. end of the Tribulation Period
(Revelation 19)

5R. Tribulation period begins
5SC. Millennial Kingdom begins

6R. Saved are delivered from wrath
(1 Thes 1:10, 5:9; Rev 3:10)
6SC. Unsaved experience the wrath of God
(Rev 6:12-17)

7R. No Signs precede the Rapture
(1 Thess. 5:1-3, Matthew 24:31-44)
7SC. Signs precede the Second Coming
(Luke 21-11-28, Matthew 24:21-30)

8R. Focus: Lord and Church
(1 Thess 4:13-18)
8SC. Focus: Israel and kingdom
(Romans 11)

9R. World is deceived (2 Thess 2:3-12)
9SC. Satan is bound (Rev 20:1-2)

10R. No judgement mentioned on earth
10SC. Follows the Tribulation period
judgement and followed by the sheep/goats
judgement.

11R. Time of joy. (1Thessalonians 4:17-18)
11SC. Time of sorrow. (Matthew 24:30)

12R. relative peace and prosperity. (Lk.17:26-30).
12SC. the worst war the world has ever seen. (Mt.24:21,22).

13R. Christians are promised they will be delivered
-- from the wrath to come (1 Thes 1:10, 5:9)
13SC. Israeli are told to flee the wrath to come (Matt 3:7, Luke 3:7)

 

Matt.24 to Christians?

Ed Edwards,

You finally admit (on this thread) that Matt.24 is written to as well as
for Christians today by agreeing with David Lamb.

You even agree that Matt.24:31 describes the Rapture!

But you continue to disregard the fact that Matt.24:30-31 are both
addressed to Christians who will be Raptured, as Jesus said, "after
the great tribulation"!! Matt.24:29-31; Mark 13:24-27; John 6:38-40.

You maintain that the Rapture of which Jesus speaks in vs.31 is a
Pre-Trib Rapture ... after the SIGN of the Son of Man in vs.30!!!

You do this flip-flop by claiming the Times of the Gentiles end at a so-called Pre-Trib Rapture. You make the "signless" END of the Age coincide with the Pre-Trib Rapture by claiming the "main sign of the End of the Age is elapsed time". Your doctrine supposedly eliminates any specific Sign
of Christ's coming for the Rapture of all the Saints. Again, you force
the Rapture of 24:31 to refer to a Pre-Trib Rapture by saying there will be
NO Sign of the End of the Age (except for ELAPSED TIME) even though Jesus says the SIGN of the Son of Man must precede the Rapture of Verse 31.

Here is the best you can do to present the truth:

Quote:
__________________________________________________________
Pre-Trib Rapture: "Saved are delivered from wrath (1 Thes 1:10, 5:9;
Rev 3:10)
Second Coming: Unsaved experience the wrath of God" (Rev 6:12-17)
___________________________________________________________
[Trib-Saints are also delivered from wrath! Your view fails!! In fact, the Scripture you should give, 2 Thes.1:10, describes the deliverance of all who believe ON THE SAME DAY OF VENGEANCE for which Christ comes!!!

[Your reference to being kept from the "Hour of Trial" does not exempt
us from the great tribulation since even you claim the great tribulation is a
sign of Christ's coming. That Hour is "coming on all those dwelling on all the face of all the earth"! Rev.3:10; Luke 21:34-35. It will be fulfilled, Jesus said, when He appears and (urges) the tribes of earth who "mourn" at THE SIGN of the Son of Man to also "beg to escape so as to stand before the Son of Man"!! Matt.24:30; Luke 21:36. This "mourning and
begging to escape" continues AFTER the Post-Trib Rapture of Matt.24:31!!!
____________________________________________________________
Quote:
Pre-Trib Rapture: "No Signs precede the Rapture (1 Thess. 5:1-3, Matthew 24:31-44)
Second Coming: Signs precede the Second Coming" (Luke 21:11-28, Matthew 24:21-30)
____________________________________________________________
[Not one verse eliminates signs of the Rapture! You try to destroy the signs by shifting the Rapture from AFTER Christ appears to 7 years before He appears!! The so-called sign you give, elapsed time, is not the "main sign" of the End of the Age!! It is not even a Sign; but a camouflage of your hocus-pocus!!!]

Mel Miller www.lastday.net Trib-Martyrs are among the Saints. :saint:

 

Matt.24 Not to Christians?

_____________________________________________________________

James,

Thanks for Luke 12:41. Jesus has a message for the JEWS at the END.

You asked an additional good question in opening this thread:

“By what theological device do we remove these teachings from ourselves today? In #5, you asked standingfirminChrist if he substituted “Then shall they deliver a `jew up to be afflicted, and shall kill jew” when reading Matt.24:9? SFIC said it was (Jews as a whole) who would be killed since the rapture would occur before “THE SIGN” of His coming in verse 30.

I agree with SFIC that “YE” can refer to the Jews as a people; but only if the Rapture occurs for BELIEVERS when Jesus said it must! “He will gather the elect from earth to heaven AFTER the great tribulation”!! That pinpoints THE TIME; but in Luke’s account of the answer to the Disciple’s question, the “YE who look up and beg to stand before the Son of Man” refers to the JEWS who “mourn when they see THE SIGN of the Son of Man” and, as Jesus urged, “beg to escape and to prevail in standing before Him”!!! Luke 21:25-36. Luke does not include the Elect among “Ye”.

Jesus did not say “they” (the elect) will be raptured BEFORE the tribulation! He changed from “YE” to “THEY” and clearly put the timing for their rapture AFTER the tribulation!! At no time did Jesus allow a partial or conditional rapture of the Elect because the Jews who "mourn" are NOT among the Elect being raptured JUST before the Jews see THE SIGN of His coming in heaven!!

So the plural “ye who might be overtaken by the cares of this life” refers to Jews in Luke; not to the disciples and obviously not to Believers regarding THE SIGN of Christ’s coming in heaven! Jesus was still talking TO Disciples AND Believers in Matt., verse 29-30, about “THE SIGN of His coming to gather the elect in verse 31 AFTER great tribulation”!! But Luke 21 does not mention the “elect” being raptured; but refers to “ye” (unbelievers) who go through the great tribulation and are suddenly faced with whether they will be "taken or left"!!! Luke 17:30-35.

In #7-13 you and Tom Butler introduce a confusing question about the timing of an “unconditional rapture”, i.e., “What is a clear, unequivocal, not-subject-to-any-other-interpretation verse or passage that teaches a pre-trib rapture”? The confusion comes when you say it is not talking about the pre-trib rapture; but yet in #14 apply “wrath” to the tribulation as if TRIB-Saints must be appointed to what Pre-Trib Saints are not appointed: “Wrath is not God's ultimate will for us. Whether that be wrath in the tribulation, or wrath at the judgment seat of Christ (???)”! How can “wrath” be applied at the bema or to Believers at any time...ever?

Finally, in #18, you make two unproven assumptions. ONE: “I can't find anywhere that teaches an unconditional rapture”. TWO: “I can show several that would seem to support a conditional (partial) rapture”.

How can Jesus “come with ALL the saints" (I Thess.3:13) if the Rapture is conditional or partial? The primary scripture your pastor promotes is Luke 21:28-36 where Jesus is NOT even talking TO or ABOUT Believers! Saints
will have been “purged or purified and refined and will not love their life unto death lest Jesus be ashamed of them at His coming”!! Dan.12:10-11; Rev.12:10-11; Mark 8:38; Mark 9:1. “Some of THOSE (Not of YE) standing (t)here will not taste death, by any means, until after THEY see God’s
Kingdom having come (perfect part) in power and in Christ’s authority” through the Two Prophets!!! Mark 9:1; Rev.12:10.

Mel Miller www.lastday.net All the Saints, including Trib-Martyrs! :saint:

 

Matt.24 to Christians?

Dear James

Since I must leave for Church visitation, I will respond to your first
question and return later.

Both in Rev.3:10 and and Luke 21:35, Jesus is careful to distinguish
between YE TO whom He is speaking and OF THOSE upon the face
of the entire earth who will suffer the HOUR (not day or any other
period of time) that comes on all the inhabitants" when they see
the signs already mentioned beginning with verse 25.

Luke, in referring to what they see beginning to happen in verse 28
and continuing to happen in verse 31, reveals the knowledge of the
nearness of their redemption can only apply to still unbelievering JEWS whom the Two Prophets will have prepared for THE SIGNS by which
they will "accept" by the fact that they are the primary ones who will
"mourn" and therefore "beg to escape all the things that happenS" on
the prophesied Day of the Lord that will take place in one HOUR ...
beginning with the "signs in the sun, moon and stars". Luke 21:25-27.

Jesus starts with the "signs" that follow the "days of wrath and the
times of the Gentiles" mentioned in verses 22-24! The Day of the Lord
occurs "after the Tribulation"; clearly taught by the Prophets as well
as 7 classes of men hiding in the hills from invading armies designating that "Day" as the "Day of God's and the Lamb's wrath"!! It cannot begin until these specific signs occur!!!

The word "always" in verse 36 is misleading. It is made up of "panti
kairw" which means at "each appointed event" on that day. Verse 25
begins with the signs of that "unique day which is neither day nor
night"; but wherein the "sun darkens at noon and the light returns at
twilight" when Christ comes "with all the saints and becomes KING
over all the earth". Amos 8:9; Zech.14:5-9.

More later as my time is up.

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

Matt.24 to Christians?

James,

The accounts given by Matthew and Mark "zero in" on the Endtime
period of great tribulation that is yet to begin with the abomination
standing in the holy place...at the Endtime when the Temple will NOT
be destroyed by the armies of the Beast coming against Jerusalem.

On the contrary, Luke's account "zeros in" on the destruction of both
the Temple and the City in AD 70. Luke does not refer to those who
"flee to the desert" at the start of the Endtime of 1260 days. Luke
goes directly, after the times of the Gentiles are finished, to what "begins to happen and continues to happen on the DAY that comes "suddenly as a snare upon ALL mankind"; not at all on those living during the 1260 days of great tribulation. That DAY occurs "in the days afterward". Mark 13:24.

"They, the Jews, will be trodden under the feet of the nations until the
appointed (kairoi) times of the nations (Gentiles) have been fulfilled". Luke 21:24. The "appointed (kairos) time to destroy these nations occurs in the days whenever the 7th Trumpet is about to sound and God's mystery was finished" (aorist indicatie; past tense). Luke 21:24; Rev.10:6-7; Rev. 11:18. The "appointed time" includes Resurrection, Rewards, Retribution.

"On one of those days", an unknown day after the great tribulation (Mark 13:24; Matt.24:29) and unknown in advance even to the Elect,
"there shall be signs in the sun, moon and stars...and then THEY (not the Elect) shall see the Son of Man coming in power and great glory". vs.25-27. THOSE who
are to "beg" do not refer to Believers, the Elect, because "Jesus will gather Believers from earth to heaven" instantly before THEY who are
suddenly overtaken by the Day (and Hour of Trial) realize "the Day of Wrath has come". Rev.6:16-17.

Besides the Elect, it is only the JEWS who will not suffer the DAY of "Wrath" because ALL Israel will be saved ON THAT DAY. Rom.11:25-27. Christ is coming with the Elect; not with Jews saved after the Son of Man appears! Rev.17:14. Watching for THE SIGN of the Son of Man Himself
does not apply to Believers because we will be "caught up and gathered together above" before THOSE who see THE SIGN "begin to mourn"!! Matt.24:30-31. We must realize the gathering by Jesus (first person sing; episunaxei) from earth to heaven in Mark 13:27 must be fulfilled before the angels can finish "gathering (episunxousin; 3rd person plural) THEM out of all extremities of the heavenS unto Jesus"!!! Matt.24:31.

The "begging (Greek deomenoi, participle; not proseuche, to pray) will begin only when "THEY (Not YE) WHO MOURN" see THE SIGN of the Son of Man! THEY will begin to BEG while the angels are sent with the sound of a great trumpet to finish gathering the Elect (Believers) unto Jesus!! 2 Thes. 2:1. "THEY will know their redemption is near and, continuing to beg, THEY will know their kingdom is near"...as taught by the Prophets and preached by the Two Witnesses..."that all scripure might be fulfilled"!!!
Luke 21:22,28,31.

Jesus tells Believers to Watch and "pray" (in Mark 13:33) until they "know the end is near". Matt.24:33. But then it is to "watch"...even when Jesus "blesses US for watching while remaining fully dressed as the armies of the Beast invade Israel! Rev.16:14-16. We are not urged to pray to escape at the very End because NO BELIEVER will be "unworthy or ashamed" to meet Jesus face to face!! Mark 8:38; I Thess.3:13; 5:23; 2 Thess.1:5-11...with
every believer "delivered from tribulation on the Day of Vengeance"!!!

In Mark 9:1, Jesus gave the backdrop for not being "ashamed AT HIS PRESENCE"! This verse should not have been separated from chapter 8 because the time for anticipating that "some will not taste death, by any
means, applies only after seeing God's Kingdom power and Christ's authority (Rev.12;10) having come" through the Two Prophets for 1260 days!! God avenges the blood of the martyrs on the day the last one dies!!! Rev.6:9-11.

Trib-Martyrs earn the highest possible "reward" offered to the Church
for having "kept the word of Christ to endure to the end! THEY are kept from the Hour of Trial coming on all earthdwellers on all the face of all
the earth"!! Rev.3:10; Luke 21:34-35. THEY are not among THOSE who mourn and beg to escape and are kept alive" since THEY know they will "serve God in the temple of heaven until the New Jerusalem comes down from heaven 1000 years later"!!! Rev.3:11-12; Rev.7:15-17; Rev.20:4.

Potentially, "one of every Twosome will be Kept Alive" (preserved; Luke 17:33) among THOSE left behind "on that Day to fulfill all that has been written" about God's (Millennial) promises to the Jews. Luke 21:22,28,31.

Mel Miller www.lastday.net All Martyrs come with Jesus before those who "survive to the end" are caught up to meet them in the air. :applause:

 

Matt.24 not to Christians?

____________________________________________________________

James,

There's no need for a chart to determine that Luke 21:36 is intended
for Jews rather than for Christians. All those who are not "worthy of
Christ at His Presence" will be "purified and refined or else purged." Too much is being made of our perfect "position in Christ" for many of us to admit that "judgment must begin with the household of God" so that Christians will be "worthy" of meeting Christ at His coming. I Pet.4:17;

I note you had no comment on the DAY of vengeance being the "Day of Deliverance for every Believer when Christ comes in flaming fire to take vengeance on all who disobey the Gospel". 2 Thess.1:5-11.

Believers won't "be begging to be worthy to escape God's wrath from the time they see these things beginning to happen until the Son of Man actually appears"! Jesus promises to raise up "every believer on the last
day"; no exceptions!! John 6:38-40. The term, Son of Man, automatically calls to mind His relation to the Jews and that they, the tribes of earth,
will "beg to escape and to also prevail" in their anxious desire to "stand before the Son of Man". Luke 21:36.

With every Believer facing the possibility of Martyrdom, but every day
living victoriously so as to overcome to the end and be saved from physical death after keeping God's word to endure" (Rev.2:25-27; 3:10), we can be sure that Jesus will not be ashamed of any of His own at His coming!! "Those who endure will be kept from the HOUR of Trial coming
on all the face of all the earth to test those dwelling on the earth"!!!

The "test" for Believers comes during the Tribulation; "for it is through
much tribulation that we must enter the Kingdom of God"! Paul prays over and over that we might be worthy at Christ's Presence!! And these prayers are in the context of God's promise to "keep us from His wrath"!!!
I Thess.3:13; I Thess.5:23; 2 Thess.1:11.

Mel Miller www.lastday.net :applause:

 

Mel Miller: //The "test" for Believers comes during the Tribulation; "for it is through
much tribulation that we must enter the Kingdom of God"! //

Amen, Brother Mel Miller -- Preach it! :thumbs:
Here are some Tribulations and who will face them:

--------------------------------------
The Five Tribulations
of the Holy Bible
Contrasted and compared
by ed

The following terms are used in the Holy Bible to denote
tribulation: tribulation, distress, afliction, trouble

1. tribulation due to the human condition
WHO: all the sons and daughters of Adam & Eve
WHAT: heartaches, pains, troubles, distresses, disappointements,
affliction, trouble, ordeal, suffering, wretchedness,
misfortune, worry, care, hardship, agony,
anguish, torment, adversity,
travail of a woman giving birth, disease, cancer,
famine, plague, fatigue, depression, etc.
WHEN: From Adam's explusion from the Garden of Eden
to the day a new heaven & new earth is created by
God, AKA: time as opposed to eternity
WHERE: worldwide
WHY: God only knows why, it is just the way things are,
maybe it has to do with the fall of man in the Garden of Eden?

2. tribulation of Christian Martyrdom
WHO: those Christians chosen by the Holy Spirit for special honor
WHAT: persecution by non-Christians: Pagans, athiests, and
even people who call themselves "Christian" but aren't
WHEN: 33AD to the start of the millinnial kingdom of Jesus
WHERE: worldwide
WHY: many are called to follow Jesus;
few are chosen to the honor of the spiritual
gift of martyrdom

3. tribulation of the Jews scattered among the Gentiles
WHO: Yisrael dispersed among the goy
WHAT: persecution by non-Christians: Pagans, athiests, and
usually people who call themselves "Christian" but aren't
WHEN: during the time of the Gentiles
(from Mount Calvary to Mount Olivet)
WHERE: worldwide
WHY: punishment for rejecting Messiah Jesus

4. "The Tribulation period" of those ruled by the Antichrist
(AKA: Wrath of the Lamb /Revelation 6:17/ )
WHO: citizens of the world
WHAT: a fate worse than death (Rev 6:15-17, Rev 9:6)
WHEN: during the 70th week of Daniel (first half)
WHERE: worldwide
WHY: punishment for rejecting Lord Jesus

5. "The Great Tribulation period" of those ruled by the Antrichrist
WHO: people who take the mark of the beast
WHAT: the wrath of God
WHEN: during the 70th week of Daniel (last half)
WHERE: worldwide
WHY: punishment for rejecting Lord Jesus

Note that #1, #2, and #3 are measured in travail units;
#4 and #5 are measured in time units.

Here are the names/descriptions of the Tribulation
Period found in the O.T.:

The tribulation in Deut 4:30
the day of Israel's calamity in Deut 32:35, Obadiah 1:12-14
the indignation in Isaiah 26:20, Daniel 11:36
the overflowing scourge in Isaiah 28:15,18
The Lord's strange work in Isaiah 28:21
The year of recompence in Isaiah 34:8
The day of vengeance in Isaiah 34:8, 35:4, 61:2
The time of Jacob's Trouble in Jeremiah 30:7
The day of darkness in Joel 2:2, Amos 5:18, 20; Zephaniah 1:15
See also Zephaniah 1:15-16.:

 

Matt.24 not to Christians?

_____________________________________________________________

Brother James,

It is perfectly obvious that Believers "watch" for Christ's coming, even in
the process of Armageddon's armies invading Israel; for that's when Jesus
"blesses" Believers for "watching" with imminent expectation of His coming! Rev.16:14-16.

But there is no scripture that states we should "pray to escape" what is coming on all earthdwellers following the SIGNS in the sun, moon and stars and with the heavens rolling up like a scroll"! Rev.6:12-14. When the armies have gathered to Armageddon, Christ is coming to Deliver every
Believer at the same time He comes in flaming fire to destroy the wicked!!
Every one who is "called, elect (as well as faithful; Rev.17:14) know Christ is coming to deliever them ON the DAY of Vengeance!!! 2 Thess.1:5-11.

I'm sorry if you must refuse to acknowledge that Luke's account does not
mention Believers as those who should "beg to escape these things" after
they see THE SIGN of Christ's Presence! They "beg to prevail" (not to be worthy since they would have been caught up to meet the Lord prior to
THE SIGN of His Presence if they had been Believers)...because that is Paul's prayer OVER and OVER!! I Thess.3:13; I Thess.5:23; 2 Thess.1:11.
And Luke 21:25-36 applies ONLY to those who may be "taken or left" after Christ "gathers us from earth to heaven and sends the angels to complete our gathering from all extremities of the heavenS"!!! Mk.13:27; Mt.24:31.

James, if you will check it out, please note that Jesus does not ask us to pray at all in Matthew's account after we "know His coming is near"! In Mark He asks us to "watch and pray" only until we "know what time it is"!! Matt.24:33; Mark 13:33. I ask you, sir, are you open to the conviction
that Jesus can only have the Jews in mind in Luke's account where no
mention is made of the Elect who suffer during the great tribulation?!!!

Again, when you consider Luke 17, please note that, of the ones who are
"taken or left", one is obviously "taken in judgment and fed to the birds"
while the other will be "preserved; kept alive" only if he is "willing to die"!
Believers will have proved they "love not their life unto death" during the 1260-day Endime when many will "overcome to the End"!! Rev.12:11-14; Rev.2:25-27. You cannot prove the "end" here refers only to those who "overcome" until the Pre-Trib Rapture!!!

Is it possible that you have not yet recognized (being "ignorant of" as Paul says) that Jesus wishes to save those who "mourn" when they "see Him coming in the clouds"? Rev.1:7; Zech.12:10; Matt.24:30. What is your exegesis of Rom.11:25 where God's mystery reveals that the "complete end of the Jews' blindness will occur when Messiah comes out of Zion"?

Because of the Jewish remnant's "election of grace" (Rom.11:5) at Christ's return, "all Israel will be saved"! But, too late for the Rapture, they are preserved only by "standing erect and looking up", after they see Him appear and they "know their redemption is near"!! Luke 21:28. Then they begin to be "begging to escape" at each ticking moment because "they will know their kingdom is near"!!! Luke 21:31.

It will require this instruction (to be preached by the Two Witnesses) to
warn them NOT to be overtaken with drunkenness! Why? Lest they fail to be ready for "THE SIGN of Christ's Presence" as the PROOF they will need to "beg to escape and be preserved; kept alive" as Moses was "preserved in a basket" until he was rescued (Read Acts 7:19 for the only other use
of this word for being "kept alive")!! We need to give God glory for the
"mercy he will show to the Jews and to all the tribes of earth"...including
millions of descendants of the 12 tribes of Ishmael!!!

It's faulty eisegesis to extract the truth of "imminency" from Matt.24:36 which is meant for Believers prior to the End and then make Luke 21:36 a parallel of Believers' expectation! Matt.24:29,36. Those who "mourn and beg to escape" on the "Day and at the Hour" of His actual Presence are the subjects who need last minute hope!! What we expect has nothing to do with what Jews need to know at the Hour of His Presence "immediately after the great tribulation"...with armies gathered to destroy them!!!

Mel Miller www.lastday.net :applause: God will have mercy on all. Rom.11:32.

 

You're emphasizing the details as you interpret them and missing the big picture. Why didn't the rich young ruler accept Christ? Because he wasn't willing to pay the price. That was very clear unlike the "proof" you offer on the rapture and the Millennium. These are secondary events if they happen at all. The primary events are Christ's Second Coming (not 3rd or 4th) and the Judgement. The Judgement is described in MA 25 and in REV 20. These accounts are consistent. There is no reason to believe that there will be multiple judgements.

 

StraightAndNarrow: //There is no reason to believe that there will be multiple judgements.//

Here are the details. Try shooting down my details???

-----------------------
Five Judgements

The Lord God is a judging God

"To judge" can mean three things in the Holy Bible:

A. to discern between good and evil (human function)
B. to condemn, usually falsely (human function)
C. to reward the just & punish the evil (Godly function)

The Five Judgements:

1. Believers for SIN on the Cross
WHO: All who will Believe
WHEN: 33AD
WHERE: Jerusalem
WHY: The Lord God is a merciful God.
HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
WHAT: found innocent by the Bood of Jesus

How to get from judgement 1 to judgement 2
(and avoid judgements 3, 4, or 5):

Romans 10:9 (KJV): "That if thou
shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt
believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from
the dead, thou shalt be saved."

2. Judgement Seat of Christ
WHO: Believers for works
WHEN: during the Great Tribulation on earth;
Right after the Rapture/Resurrection that starts
the Tribulation
WHERE: Heaven
WHY: to assign rewards (including
the Millinnial Kingdom rest)
to the redeemed for their good works
HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
WHAT: found innocent by the Bood of Jesus

3. Judgement of Yisrael under Antichrist
(Ezekiel 22:17-22 Time of Jacob's Trouble; Ezekiel 20:34-38;
Jeremiah 30:1-24; Revelation 6-19)
WHO: Yisrael
WHEN: during the Tribulation
WHERE: earth
WHY: The Lord God fulfills His promises
HOW: The wrath of God by Messiah Jesus
WHAT: Great Tribulation

4. Throne of His Glory judgement
(AKA: Sheep and Goat Nations judgement, Matthew 25:31-46,
2 Cor 5:10, 1 Cor 3:11-15)
WHO: the nations: the living surviver nations of the Great Tribulation
(these people are NOT saved, they are human in human bodies)
WHEN: after the Great Tribulation, before the Millennial Age
WHERE: Jerusalem
WHY: The Lord God fulfills His promises: God will bless those
who bless Yisrael and curse those who curse Yisrael
HOW: Judged by their treatment of Yisrael
WHAT: the cursed nations to Hell; the blessed nations
to the Millennial Messanic KingdomAge

5. Great White Throne judgement
(Revelation 20:11:15)
WHO: the wicked dead
WHEN: after the Millennial Age; before endless ages
WHERE: between Hell and the Lake of Fire
WHY: The Lord God is not mocked
HOW: The wrath of God by Messiah Jesus
WHAT: the Messiah rejectors consigned to endless punishment

NOTE: The delineation of the five revealed
judgements above does not preclude other specific
or general judgements. One place on the net i found
a chart where TWENTY-FOUR judgements were delineated.
The Lord God is a judging God and His hand is not shortened
by His revelation to us nor
by our understaning of His revelation to us.

May Jesus our Savior and our Lord be Praised!

--compilation by ed,
incurable Jesus Phreaque
--------------------------------------

IMHO if the Who? When? Where?Why?How? or What?
is different, the judgement is different. These judgements
have differences as shown above.
These judgements have different names
Sorry, saying 'there is only one judgement' is in error.

And another thing. Feel free to give your 'one and only one
judgment' call to salvation.

However, there is one judgement:
Every person will be judged.

However, there are two judgements:
the judgement of the just (in Christ)
the judgement of the unjust

However, there are three judgements:
1 Corinthians 10:32 (KJV1769):
Give none offence, neither to the JEWS,
nor to the GENTILES, nor to the CHURCH OF GOD.