Matthew 24 Question #1, When will the Temple be thrown down, toave "not one stone left on another"?

[Alan Dale Gross]

These first 14 verses of Matthew 24 are describing how Jesus was with the Disciples viewing the buildings of the Temple,

1 "And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew Him the buildings of the temple."

Then, Jesus Prophesied about a time to come, when the Roman army had heard that the Jews had gold hidden and stored within the stones of the Temple and would then totally demolish the Temple, looking for gold.

2 "And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down".

Verse 3 contains three questions that the disciples then ask Jesus. Their first question was asking Jesus, when He was talking about that the Temple was going to be utterly thrown down.

The Disciples then asked Jesus about any signs they could look for with regard to Jesus coming, but they were assuming that, after the Temple was destroyed, that would be when Jesus would be coming before the world, introducing Himself as the Promised Messiah and set up His New Earthly Kingdom, to then Rule His New Government, with Great Power and Authority AND THEY DIDN`T WANT TO MISS THAT.

This verse, nor this entire passage, from 1-35, is making any reference to The Second Coming of Jesus and can`t be applied to when Jesus Returns Again to Earth. That is a most common error regarding the Divine Interpretation of Matthew 24, so we need to try and contain ourselves. There is no such thing in Scripture as a dual or double fulfillment of Prophecy. Each verse in The Bible has one Interpretation, not a hodge-podge of possibilities. Jesus is answering the Disciples question about the Temple being destroyed and were asking when would be the sign of His coming, to set up His Earthly Kingdom, to then Rule as their King.

This is key to getting The Lord`s message that is in Matthew 24, without confusing the entire issue Jesus is talking about, as having anything to do with His Second Coming, because it simply does not. Not until He is ready to address that question of the Disciples, later, beginning in vs 24:36. That is the subject of their third question.

3 "And as He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

The Disciples questions to Jesus, 1.) When will the Temple be thrown down?
2.) After, the Temple is destroyed, what signs can you give us, so we will know when You are about to take Power and Control of the Government, as the King of your Kingdom? Interestingly enough, rather than speak to that specific interest the Disciples assumed was going to taking place, Jesus` answer to that second question of theirs, focused instead on an entirely different subject matter and that was in regard to the destruction of Jerusalem, in A.D. 70 that He spoke of as being The Desolation of Abomination Daniel had Prophesied, and not about Him "coming" to temporal civil power, which Jesus had no plans of doing.
3.) Then, the Disciples` third question is when Jesus gives them His answer concerning when the End of the World was going to take plsce.

So, first here in these verses 1-14 Jesus answer to the Disciples has to do, exclusively, with the period of time leading up to when the Temple is destroyed.

4 "And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you."

False Christs would be showing up, prior to the destruction of the Temple. Our present day, prior to the Return of The Lord, when He Comes Again, IS NOT any part of what Jesus is talking to them about. So, false Christs are NOT something Jesus was warning us about, today, at all.

5 "For many shall come in My Name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many".

Prior to A.D. 70, at the destruction of Jerusalem.

6 "And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet."

"The end", here, then is where Jesus is referring to the end of worshipping in the Temple, for the Jews. The end of the Temple. No association with "The End of The World" is meant or intended, by Jesus, at this time.

And, so the same is true of the following verses, which are only describing what will be taking place leading up to the Roman army`s devastating attack there in Jerusalem.

7 "For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places."

8 "All these are the beginning of sorrows."

9 "Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for My Name's sake".

10 "And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another".

11 "And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many".

12 "And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold".

Then, Jesus mentions how if they are able to make it through those kinds of persecutions and temporal calamities, alive, they should survive, as long as they take heed to His warning coming up, about being sure to flee Jerusalem, before it was too late.

13 "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved".

From the time Jesus is speaking here to His Disciples, the Gospel will be spread far and wide, before to A.D. 70.

14 "And this Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."

Then, in A.D. 70 would come the end of the Jews` religious economy of worshipping in the Temple, at the destruction of Jerusalem by the Roman armies, that Daniel called The Desolation of Abomination.

 

[kyredneck]

Matthew 24 Question #1, When will the Temple be thrown down, toave "not one stone left on another"?

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished.

 

[JD731]

If a Bible Student is reading Mathew 24 he should first take an English class and then study a KJV Bible and pay attention to the words. The English class will will be for a study of the word "then." Matthew 24 is filled with the word, Then. This is an adverb and we English speakers use it thousands of times a day. Here is an example of how I will use it in this post.

I am going to re-read the 1st post by Alan, then I am going to re-read the response of ky then I will relax awhile, then I will check to see if my knowledge of the English language and my admonition to apply the rules to Matthew 24 has done any good, then I will know if they are being honest with the text, which I suppose they haven't.

The word "then" is an adverb.It works in conjunction with the verbs. Look in my paragraph above and notice that I have three things planned concurrently. The things are things that I am going to do. Those are verbs in my paragraphs.

1) I am going to re-read Alan's post
2) Then I will relax
3) Then my checking to see if my observance of my wisdom has helped anyone
4) Then I will be more informed about my posters.
___________________

There are 7 "thens" to observe in Matt 24 after the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD. The historical fact of when it was destroyed by Titus, the Roman General.

Mt 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven:

and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

This is concurrent events after the destruction of the temple in 70 AD that have not occurred yet and the church of Jesus Christ is not mentioned and is not considered in this prophecy because they do not happen until the church of Jesus Christ has been translated. The church and Israel have different prophecies because they have a different relationship and purpose with God.

THINK!

 

[37818]

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished.

That "generation" are them who see Matthew 24:29-30 events.

 

[Jope]

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished.

Greetings,

What do you mean by quoting this verse?

Erasmus viewed the word "generation" in your verse as referring to the generation of the heaven and earth (Gen. 2:4). When you read the next verse, 35, you'll find Jesus claiming heaven and earth will pass away, so he is speaking about the generation of heaven and earth.

Jerome said the word "generation" referred to the generation of the Jewish race. Hodge said that there is "high authority" for believing the word "generation" referred to the Jewish race.

 

[kyredneck]

Greetings,

What do you mean by quoting this verse?

Erasmus viewed the word "generation" in your verse as referring to the generation of the heaven and earth (Gen. 2:4). When you read the next verse, 35, you'll find Jesus claiming heaven and earth will pass away, so he is speaking about the generation of heaven and earth.

Jerome said the word "generation" referred to the generation of the Jewish race. Hodge said that there is "high authority" for believing the word "generation" referred to the Jewish race.

I don't care about what uninspired men say about 'this generation', this is what the scripture has to say about 'this generation'.

 

[kyredneck]

That "generation" are them who see Matthew 24:29-30 events.

Yes.

 

[Jope]

I don't care about what uninspired men say about 'this generation', this is what the scripture has to say about 'this generation'.

You're hilarious. As if ambiguous words don't exist in the bible
Hey wait a minute, don't you quote Josephus in the hyperlink you provided?

 

[kyredneck]

You're hilarious.

You're typical.

don't you quote Josephus in the hyperlink you provided

Well, not only was he eyewitness of the calamities that befell 'that generation', he was a Jewish priest, commander of the Galilean forces at the beginning of the war, taken prisoner and accompanied Vespasian and then Titus during their campaign who used him to plead with his countrymen to cease their revolt.

Josephus wasn't 'inspired', he was eyewitness to fulfillment of prophecy.

 

[Jope]

I don't care about what uninspired men say about 'this generation', this is what the scripture has to say about 'this generation'.

In your hyperlink, you have an excerpt in quotations but no reference:

"No other slaughter/genocide in history, including the massacres at Merv and Nanking, matches that which occurred at Jerusalem A.D. 70. The Jews virtually self destructed, it was suicide, the infighting/civil war/self destruction that broke out among 'that generation' killed as many or more as the Roman army did. They literally became demon possessed mad men that turned on each other. From that aspect alone it was indeed "great tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever shall be".

You really think that the present world population and the present population of Jews in Israel would not exceed in comparison to the much smaller population of the world and Israel in the first century AD?

Also, since you believe that passage is fulfilled in 70AD, immediately after the tribulation of those days Christ would appear (Mt. 24:29-30), who recorded Christ's worldwide appearance (Mt. 24:30)? If there was a gathering of the elect (verse 31), why are the Jews and the Christians both scattered throughout the world after 70AD still?

As the worldwide flood days of Noah were, Mt. 24:37, so shall the coming of Christ be. What is your response to this?

Also, can you give us a reference as to when the worldwide wars were fought during this great tribulation (Mt. 24:7)?

 

[kyredneck]

What is your response to this?

Educate yourself, I'm not going to do it. Good place to start (and free):

Philip Mauro: The Seventy Weeks and the Great Tribulation (1921)

 

[37818]

@Jope

The tribulation mentioned in Matthew 24:29, Immediately after the tribulation of those days . . . . Has not occurred yet.

 

[kyredneck]

@Jope

The tribulation mentioned in Matthew 24:29, Immediately after the tribulation of those days . . . . Has not occurred yet.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Are you so daft to take this hyperbole literally? That literal stars are literally going to fall on the planet earth?

At Pentecost:

16 but this is that which hath been spoken through the prophet Joel:
17 And it shall be in the last days, saith God, I will pour forth of my Spirit upon all flesh: And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, And your young men shall see visions, And your old men shall dream dreams:
18 Yea and on my servants and on my handmaidens in those days Will I pour forth of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy.
19 And I will show wonders in the heaven above, And signs on the earth beneath; Blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke:
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the day of the Lord come, That great and notable [day]. Acts 2

Concerning the Old Covenant arrangement:

26 whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more will I make to tremble not the earth only, but also the heaven.
27 And this [word], Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that have been made, that those things which are not shaken may remain.
28 Wherefore, receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us have grace, whereby we may offer service well-pleasing to God with reverence and awe: Heb 12

See judgement of Babylon: Isaiah 13:10;

 

[37818]

Are you so daft to take this hyperbole literally? That literal stars are literally going to fall on the planet earth?

Romans 2:1.

Literally are simply points of light. We moderns call them meteors. And those which land on the Earth meteorites. I had this understanding before I was a Christian.

 

[Dave G]

Then, in A.D. 70 would come the end of the Jews` religious economy of worshipping in the Temple, at the destruction of Jerusalem by the Roman armies

I agree.
That is indeed when I see the prophecy being fulfilled, and the temple that existed in the Lord's time on earth was destroyed.

that Daniel called The Desolation of Abomination.

Speaking strictly from my own observation, I've never heard of anyone yet who has physically sat down in the mercy seat ( in the Holy of Holies ) of the temple in Jerusalem and declared that he is God ( the Abomination of Desolation ), followed by lying signs and wonders ( and a world-wide mandate for all people to take his mark or face death ) and great tribulation such as the world has never seen.

42 long, agonizing months in which roughly 2/3 of all mankind will be killed by various means ( all stemming from the wrath of God ), immediately followed by His return with His elect to rule at Jerusalem for 1,000 years on the throne of His father ( forebear, in the flesh ) David.

Sorry, Alan, I must disagree with you and anyone else who is a-millenial.

 

[Jope]

Educate yourself, I'm not going to do it. Good place to start (and free):

Philip Mauro: The Seventy Weeks and the Great Tribulation (1921)

So you won't take my testimony on the charge that my references are uninspired about Jerome, Erasmus, and Hodge's perspective on a single verse's term, but you're going to suggest I read a whole book to find out about your appeal to authority fallacy commentary on whether there is proof of prophetic fulfillment. Would it sway you to find out that Mauro actually believed Matthew 24's reference to Noah did prove that Jesus' return is happening in the future (Ibid., Hamilton Bros. Scripture Truth Depot, 1923, pp 244-5)?

 

[Jope]

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Are you so daft to take this hyperbole literally? That literal stars are literally going to fall on the planet earth?

Ever heard of Diana of Ephesus? Do you believe that, given Moses' angelic experience in the form of a non-anthropomorphic angel in the burning bush (or Ezekiel's angelic-orb visions), angels don't necessarily have to be anthropomorphic?

Also, are you really doubting that the God who told the stars to shine and to be, can darken them at will?

At Pentecost:

16 but this is that which hath been spoken through the prophet Joel:
17 And it shall be in the last days, saith God, I will pour forth of my Spirit upon all flesh: And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, And your young men shall see visions, And your old men shall dream dreams:
18 Yea and on my servants and on my handmaidens in those days Will I pour forth of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy.
19 And I will show wonders in the heaven above, And signs on the earth beneath; Blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke:
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the day of the Lord come, That great and notable [day]. Acts 2

Not sure what you're trying to say here. Can you be less vague?

Concerning the Old Covenant arrangement:

26 whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more will I make to tremble not the earth only, but also the heaven.
27 And this [word], Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that have been made, that those things which are not shaken may remain.
28 Wherefore, receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us have grace, whereby we may offer service well-pleasing to God with reverence and awe: Heb 12

See judgement of Babylon: Isaiah 13:10;

Do you believe that God literally stopped the sun in Joshua's day? What about the plagues against Egypt?

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished.

Exactly. And, by this time in the narrative, Jesus has also spoken about the Destruction of Jerusalem, in A.D. 70, The Desolation of Abomination. That generation He was speaking to witnessed it, just like Jesus Prophecied.