1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Matthew 24

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by 1689Dave, May 23, 2018.

  1. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    708
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world. Plus, it is eternal, not 1000 years long.
     
  2. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    708
    Faith:
    Baptist
    if you believe Jesus will one day sit on David’s throne in Jerusalem, have you thought about Jeconiah’s curse? If so, how do you cope with Jeconiah’s curse?
     
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The Kingdom was not to be established at His first Coming, but will be at the Second One!
     
    #63 Yeshua1, Jun 1, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2018
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    God said that Jesus would one day reign forever upon the throne of the Davidic line, correct? Its called the Davidic Covenant.
     
  5. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    708
    Faith:
    Baptist
    This is not true. The kingdom began at his first coming and will move into the New Heavens and earth at his second coming.

    “But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has already overtaken you.” (Luke 11:20) (NET)


    “Jesus replied, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”” (John 3:3) (NET)
     
  6. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    708
    Faith:
    Baptist
    And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” (Matthew 3:2) (KJV 1900)

    And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.” (Matthew 11:12) (KJV 1900)

    Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.” (Matthew 16:28) (KJV 1900)

    Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” (John 3:3) (KJV 1900)

    Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.” (John 18:36) (KJV 1900)

    And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:” (Luke 17:20) (KJV 1900)

    Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” (Luke 17:21) (KJV 1900)
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  7. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    708
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Peter says this is taking place since Christ's resurrection.

    “Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.” (Acts 2:30–31) (KJV 1900)
     
  8. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8,915
    Likes Received:
    2,132
    Faith:
    Baptist
    fair comment. I looked at the three versions I use most regularly: KJV, NKJV and NIV, all of which state 'it' which I believe to be correct for the reasons I stated, and some other ones which I will give in answer to your later post..
     
  9. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8,915
    Likes Received:
    2,132
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I do nothing of the sort. I have answered your Bible verses several times each.
    Each of these three verses is immediately followed by the account of the Transfiguration. I understand that you don't like this fact, but fact it is nonetheless. Moreover, as I have pointed out several times, the Transfiguration meets all the requirements of these verses. They speak of 'Coming,' 'kingdom' and 'power.'
    'For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty' (2 Peter 1:16). Where was this? At the Transfiguration (v.18).
    If you were honest about it, you would admit that he kingdom of God arrived with the coming of Christ on earth.
    Matthew 12:28. 'But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, surely the kingdom of heaven has come [past tense] upon you.'
    Matthew 13:24. "The kingdom of heaven is [present tense] like a man who sowed good seed in his field."
    John 18:36. '"My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight so that I should not be delivered to the Jews. But now My kingdom is not from here."

    John 18:37. "You rightly say that I am a king."

    The Lord Jesus certainly foretold that the generation then present would not pass away before the destruction of the Temple. But there is another separate event which He also foretold:
    Matthew 24:34-36, "Assuredly I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things [Gk. tauta] take place............But of that
    [Gk. ekeines] day and hour no one knows.......' There is a contrast between 'this' and 'that.' Two different things. 'All these things' are the destruction of Jerusalem and the abomination of desolation; 'that day' is the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ in power, of which Peter, James and John caught a glimpse at the Transfiguration. That it is the coming of Christ that is being referred to is shown by v.44. '.....For the Son of man is coming at an hour you do not expect.' Paul goes further and tells us that this coming will be when men are saying 'Peace and safety!' Do you really think that anyone was saying 'Peace and safety' during the Jewish rebellion of AD 66-70?
     
  10. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    20,509
    Likes Received:
    3,047
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You stated:



    Again, back to the parallels:
    31 Even so ye also, when ye see these things coming to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh.
    32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lu 21

    'IT' is the Son of man coming in His kingdom. That's why so many of the translators went with 'He is nigh'.

    " till all things be accomplished". Notice the plurality within that statement?
     
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The kingdom of God will NOT be over the whole earth until the king Jesus brings it Himself!
     
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You are spot on concerning this issue, as the 70 AD event was not the Second Coming, was not the great tribulation etc!
     
  13. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    708
    Faith:
    Baptist
    When Jesus returns, this world ends in fire and the New Heavens and earth begin.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Except that Jesus glorifies his own people, raises them up in the first resurrection, and 1000 years later there is the second resurrection for those who are lost!
     
  15. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    708
    Faith:
    Baptist
    This is not true. Jesus will never reign physically in Jerusalem in this present age. He said his kingdom is not of this age (world). Jesus also said “But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has already overtaken you.” (Luke 11:20) (NET)

    But, here's the catch: “Jesus replied, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”” (John 3:3) (NET)

    So if you are born again, I would begin looking for it now, not off somewhere in the future that will never happen this side of the New Heavens and earth.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    There is a 1000 gap between the first and second resurrection stated in revelation 20...
     
  17. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    708
    Faith:
    Baptist
    In Revelation 20 the angel and the chain are symbols. And John tells us the dragon or serpent is a symbol for Satan. If these are symbols, would not the 1000 years be a symbol too?
     
  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    When do the first and second resurrection occur?
     
  19. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8,915
    Likes Received:
    2,132
    Faith:
    Baptist
    :rolleyes: One more time. The kingdom of God was nigh when the Lord Jesus began His ministry (Mark 1:15). 'Nigh' clearly meant 'here' in the light of verses like Matthew 12:28. So whatever Luke means in Luke 21:31-32, He does not mean the coming of Christ because Christ was already there! Nor does it mean the 'Son of man coming in His kingdom' because Peter, James and John got their sneak preview at the Transfiguration, and when Christ comes again, 'every eye shall see Him.'

    All preterism, but especially hyper-preterism, is sunk without trace by Acts 1:11. Our Lord left in a physical body (Luke 24:39); He will return in a physical body. Clouds closed over Him to obscure Him when He left; clouds will part to reveal Him as He returns. Witnesses saw Him ascend; witnesses will see Him descend.

    If you want a 'parallel,' try comparing 'these things' with 'that day.' They are contrasted for our understanding. 'These things' (Matthew 24:33) will have signs preceeding them, as indeed they did back in AD 70. 'That day' (Matthew 24:36) will come without warning, like a thief in the night (v.43; Revelation 16:15 etc.).
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8,915
    Likes Received:
    2,132
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The first resurrection is the New Birth (c.f. Ephesians 2:4-5). Once you've got that, the rest falls into place.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
Loading...