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Matthew 28:19

Martin Marprelate

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Another point on this passage:
Matt. 28:19-20, KJV. "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, teaching them to observe all things...."
THe word translated 'teach' in verse 19 is matheteuo, which means 'to make a disciple' (from the noun mathetes, a disciple. The word translated 'teaching' in v.20 is didasko, which actually means 'to teach.' Hence the NKJV translates:
"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations ..........." The point is that the KJV translators were all paedobaptists and they did not believe in the baptism of believers/disciples only.
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
In KJV English (like Shakespeare spoke), Ghost and Spirit meant EXACTLY the same thing. The words drifted apart in “connotation” (flavor) over the centuries since then.
Yep. And a lot has changed since then.

People read "the soul that sins" as people sinning in their soul, or the soul dying, when the word (in that passage) means "person". Obviously this woukd be known by the context (the Israelites could not kill a person's soul), but when people pull out verses to use it can cause confusion.

"So" in Jn 3:16 has caused confusion with some as well.

"Wine bottles" fairly recently caused some confusion (bottles vs wine skins...in the KJV bottles were wine skins).
 

JD731

Well-Known Member
Another point on this passage:
Matt. 28:19-20, KJV. "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, teaching them to observe all things...."
THe word translated 'teach' in verse 19 is matheteuo, which means 'to make a disciple' (from the noun mathetes, a disciple. The word translated 'teaching' in v.20 is didasko, which actually means 'to teach.' Hence the NKJV translates:
"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations ..........." The point is that the KJV translators were all paedobaptists and they did not believe in the baptism of believers/disciples only.
I am reading this command to the apostles in the context that Matthew puts it, which is one week after the resurrection of Jesus Christ and it is in Galilee, called in some passages, "Galilee of the nations."

Mt 28:10 Then said Jesus unto them (the Mary's V1), Be not afraid: go tell my brethren that they go into Galilee, and there shall they see me.

16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain (A MOUNTAIN IN BIBLICAL SYMBOLISM IS A KINGDOM - the higher the mountain, the greater the kingdom) where Jesus had appointed them.
17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world (age). Amen.

The trinitarian application is contained in the three presentations of the gospel (good news), as I see it.

1) The gospel of the kingdom
2) The gospel of Christ
3) The gospel of God

Matthew majors on the gospel of the kingdom which begins with the Jews and includes all nations. To enter the kingdom one must first be born again.
 

Martin Marprelate

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I am reading this command to the apostles in the context that Matthew puts it, which is one week after the resurrection of Jesus Christ and it is in Galilee, called in some passages, "Galilee of the nations."

Mt 28:10 Then said Jesus unto them (the Mary's V1), Be not afraid: go tell my brethren that they go into Galilee, and there shall they see me.

16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain (A MOUNTAIN IN BIBLICAL SYMBOLISM IS A KINGDOM - the higher the mountain, the greater the kingdom) where Jesus had appointed them.
17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world (age). Amen.

The trinitarian application is contained in the three presentations of the gospel (good news), as I see it.

1) The gospel of the kingdom
2) The gospel of Christ
3) The gospel of God

Matthew majors on the gospel of the kingdom which begins with the Jews and includes all nations. To enter the kingdom one must first be born again.
Without wishing to get into discussion of all the points you have made, the gist of the issue is whether Christians are to teach people something about Jesus and baptize them whether they believe or not, or to make disciples and baptize them. As one who was 'baptized' into the Church of England as an infant, I have seen the baneful effects of the first system.
 

JD731

Well-Known Member
In KJV English (like Shakespeare spoke), Ghost and Spirit meant EXACTLY the same thing. The words drifted apart in “connotation” (flavor) over the centuries since then.
I have proven to myself over the years that the word of God is a supernatural book in all respects, including the words the supernatural God chose and the number of times he chose to use them. I also have found that a numerical structure exists through words and not just numbers. Some are easy to see while others requires study and meditation to find the patterns. The trinity is like that. It is on almost every page of the scriptures yet many come on pages like this and deny it even exists. Men who do this are not a trinity themselves and cannot identify with it because Bible truth, says God, comes through revelation of those truths by an indwelling divine teacher.

We have been warned. Some will have their names blotted out of the book of life by corrupting the structure of the divine record by changing the words to suit themselves while they go on record as doubting the ability of the Spirit to teach because they say the words are old.

1 John 2:27
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it (the anointing) hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

The man with the Spirit in him is a trinity, soul, body, and Spirit of Christ, one in three and three in one, equally.

Now we have another word that describes the Spirit of Christ. Jesus Christ is physically sitting on the throne of God, at his right hand, and he is alive. He is about 6 ft tall with olive skin and he has physical members and he has a soul because men have souls, a spiritual nature which gives them personality. But his Spirit is God because God is a Spirit and eternal and life and is omnipresent and can be in all places at one time. He knows all things by one eternal act of knowing. He indwells believers, thus giving eternal life, his own life, to those who receive him by faith., Though Christ is not dwelling in our mortal bodies physically it can still be said that he is dwelling in our hearts actually when his Spirit, who is his life, dwells in us.

So Jesus Christ is soul, glorified body, and Spirit since his birth in Bethlehem and his death and physical bodily resurrection and since he is, we can understand how the following can be true.

1 Jn 5:1Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
10 He (who is in the world) that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

The scripture is trying to teach us the connection of Jesus Christ as trinity both as God and man, the eternal Spirit, who he has given to all who believe, making the connection.

13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; (WHY) that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
(because he through the Spirit is omnipresent and omniscient, and omnipotent)

Jesus Christ, while he was on the earth, except for a three hour period of time, from 12 noon to 3PM at his crucifixion, was a trinity. He had the Spirit of God indwelling his physical body and the Spirit was his power to live a sinless life in a mortal body unaffected by sin . We are told this in the gospel of John.

Jn 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Jn 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

The light went out and the world was dark for 3 hours, from 12 to 3.

John 9:5
As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.

God chose to save us by becoming like us, so we can become like him, a trinity.
 
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robycop3

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
The existence of the Holy Trinity is easily proven in the story of Jesus' baptism where Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all manifest, separate from one another. However, the KJVO myth is false.
 

John of Japan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Matthew 28:19, Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: . . .

The anti-Trinitatians claim "baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: . . ." Is unique and so not original to Matthew account.
According to the Byzantine Textform apparatus, the UBS textual commentary by Metzger and the UBS 4th ed. apparatus, etc. there are no textual problems with this passage. Any other position is wishful thinking.
 

JD731

Well-Known Member
The existence of the Holy Trinity is easily proven in the story of Jesus' baptism where Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all manifest, separate from one another. However, the KJVO myth is false.
One thing I like to do is to consider a passage in it's historical context especially if it is important enough to be brought up by the author. In this case of Mt 28:19 it is. By writing this baptismal formula here yet not recording the apostles and elders ever using it God wants us to stop and think about this. There is something to learn here about the big picture and death is not the end of their ministry and they will be resurrected and reigning in a time when the nations will still be getting saved.

Mt 19:27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Mt 28:6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.
7 And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you.

10 Then said Jesus unto them, Be not afraid: go tell my brethren that they go into Galilee, and there shall they see me.

16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

What do you think?
 
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