37818
Well-Known Member
So the condition is "that everyone who looks to the Son." So how did not those in Matthew 7:22-23 do so?
Last edited:
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Matthew 7:21 refutes Unconditional Election.
- Thread starter 37818
- Start date
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
What falsehoods KY?
I use the calvinist words and question whether they are biblically supported.
Are you denying this is a calvinist view
“A man is not saved because he believes in Christ; he believes in Christ because he is saved”. [L. Boettner The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination, Page 75
How can the Gospel call in Calvinism be a well meant or sincere offer?
Only those that are included in the Unconditional Election will partake of the Limited Atonement and will be drawn to God by His Irresistible Grace. So all men do not have an equal chance to know or trust in God. If, according to Calvinism, you are not part of this select group {the elect} then you are doomed form the start.
And calvinism says this in spite of what the bible says.
Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Are we to conclude that God was being disingenuous when He said this?
Act 17:30 "Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent,
Did the Holy Spirit get it wrong? Should it have read "commands all the elect to repent"
KY you may think that calvinism is true, I do not and when you look at it in relation to scripture my view is upheld.
37818
Well-Known Member
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Mat_7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Mat_12:50 "For whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother and sister and mother."
Joh_6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."
The will of the Father is clear believe in Him, have eternal life.
One is only elect when they are in Christ and that only happens when by the grace of God they have been saved because of their faith/trust in Him.
Does you church have Biblical Laws or is it governed by the Laws of the land?... Brother Glen
Last edited:
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
So, the “condition” that everyone look to the Son, or everyone who does the will of the Father is not a condition for “election”. It is a condition for seeing the Kingdom of Heaven.
These are two very different things.
How do they meet this condition? I will explain what I believe, which is supported, imo, by scripture.
The person is created for that purpose by God (Romans 9). Prior to salvation (a right relationship with God) the person is as lost as anyone else.
God Holy Spirit intervenes in that person’s life, “regenerating them”. This means that they are now free from sin in the sense they are enabled to see and understand the truth about their lost condition before God and their need for a Savior. God Holy Spirit also convicts that person of the Truth of Jesus, Who He is and His sacrifice on the cross and His resurrection.
This is referred to as being “drawn” by God. Jesus refers to it as His sheep hearing His voice and following Him. (John 10).
The person, now seeing the truth of Jesus, His heart is softened by God and he/she responds to this work of God by faith in Christ, Who He is and what He has done.
Without God’s intervention, this person, chosen by God for salvation, would never have faith to believe. It can be rightly observed that God, Himself, is the cause of the faith now present. God has given us faith to believe.
The person now is enabled to meet the condition of looking to the Son / doing the will of the Father and will, therefore see the Kingdom of God.
The “condition” therefore will be met by the elect, but the condition is not a condition to become the elect.
peace to you
37818
Well-Known Member
Your question makes no sense.Does you church have Biblical Laws or is it governed by the Laws of the land?... Brother Glen
37818
Well-Known Member
So how did those in Matthew 7:22-23 not meet the condition set in Matthew 7:21? How do your "unconditional" elect meet that condition?
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Jesus tells them very plainly… “depart from Me… I never knew you”. Being in a right relationship with God requires being “known” by Jesus.
Those that do not meet the “condition” were never known by Christ. The elect are known by Christ. Jesus says in John 10 that He knows His sheep and calls them “by name”. That is a specific call to specific people.
I have already explained in detail in two separate posts how the elect meet the condition of doing the will of God. Not sure what else I can say.
peace to you
37818
Well-Known Member
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
This is where he denied my salvation.
He claims I didn’t hear the gospel. He claims I didn’t believe the gospel. He claims I am, therefore, not saved.
peace to you
These many people in Matthew 7:22 trusted in their works for salvation instead of trusting in Jesus Christ alone. Jesus never knew them which means they were never saved. (vs. 23,)
I wouldn't sleep more than eight hours tonight worrying about what @Silverhair has to say. He's on a premeditated mission to stamp out Calvinism (which should show his mental state of mind). Ignore him. He's an empty clanging gong. And, he's an absolute fool if he thinks he will have success in hindering the gospel of grace.
In John 17:3, we read - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent (which is an intimate, experiential knowledge, found only in a relationship). The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with the Lord and not merely theoretical knowledge.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Show me where I said those things in context @canadyjd. When did I say you did not hear the gospel or believe the gospel or claim that your not saved. You really should not make up stories.
What you did say in post # 4 is that God had to give you faith so that would logically mean that you did not believe on your own. When I ask how you could be sure that your faith was real since calvin himself said God gave people a false faith so how could you know if yours was actually real. What was the basis for your claim.
You do not like to be questioned about your theology. But if you are going to claim something then you should be able to support it biblically. Your own theology makes lots of claims that imo do not have the support of scripture. You can believe what you like but you need to be able to support it by scripture.
It appears that I really get under your skin as I just will not accept your version of God's salvation. You like your DoG/tulip I see them as error.
I just prefer COFFEE, Christ Offers Forgiveness For Everyone Everywhere
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
KY you continue to throw insults at me. It just shows how petty you are.
The fact that I point out the errors of your theology really bothers you, as it should. I have no allusion that I will stamp out calvinism, there will always be people that are willing to follow a man-made theology. I have pointed out the pagan roots of calvinism but I would venture a guess that you have never bothered to look into it yourself.
So you can continue to make your comments and I will continue to point out the errors in calvinism.
Many, probably most professing Christians believe in "Conditional Election" in that they understand John 3:16 to say if we (the lost) put our faith (our trust) in Christ and His gospel, we will be saved. If we (the lost) do not choose to believe in Christ, we will not be saved.
The number of passages of scripture that support this view is overwhelming. A minority view, deniers of our plain understanding of scripture, post endless deflections, turning actual discussion of scripture into disputes about what was said, i.e. petty bickering.
How many times do we find "faith or believed into" God (Christ, Him, etc)?
John 2:11?
John 3:16?
John 3:18?
John 4:39?
John 6:29?
John 6:40?
John 7:5?
John 7:31?
John 7:39?
John 7:48?
John 8:30?
John 9:36?
John 10:42?
John 11:45?
John 11:48?
John 12:37?
John 12:42?
John 12:44?
Acts 10:42?
Acts 19:4?
Acts 24:24?
Acts 26:18?
The number of passages of scripture that support this view is overwhelming. A minority view, deniers of our plain understanding of scripture, post endless deflections, turning actual discussion of scripture into disputes about what was said, i.e. petty bickering.
How many times do we find "faith or believed into" God (Christ, Him, etc)?
John 2:11?
John 3:16?
John 3:18?
John 4:39?
John 6:29?
John 6:40?
John 7:5?
John 7:31?
John 7:39?
John 7:48?
John 8:30?
John 9:36?
John 10:42?
John 11:45?
John 11:48?
John 12:37?
John 12:42?
John 12:44?
Acts 10:42?
Acts 19:4?
Acts 24:24?
Acts 26:18?
There is a debate over why "eis" (locative meaning of entry into something) is used in these (post #38) verses rather than "epi" (on) or "en" (in). My view, shared by many, but probably not most scholars, is that the phrase refers to God's action of translocating the person from being in the realm of darkness (in Adam) to being placed into Christ's spiritual body. Thus the action is taken based on God crediting the person's faith toward Christ as righteousness. It follows that this faith would be "live faith" (i.e. faith from which faithfulness would flow because of its deep commitment) unlike the "faith" of soil #2 or #3 in Matthew 13. A faith that is the person's overriding priority, more valued than earthly treasures such as possessions or human relationships.
Thus all these verses indicate God's conditional election of individuals during their lives, after they came to trust in God and His Christ.
Thus all these verses indicate God's conditional election of individuals during their lives, after they came to trust in God and His Christ.
And you were saying?
Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
And here's part 2
Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Contradicting scripture again!... Your faith had nothing to do with it!... Brother Glen