Matthew 7:22-23

[Revmitchell]

I guess I need to go on the record and say that I am not a Calvinist.:laugh: It is rather humorous that I am accused of being one. I believe if you check with the Calvinists on this board they will confirm this.


I greatly disagree with much of their doctrine. However, what I abhor is people who cannot disagree without questioning the salvation of others. I believe far to many cals are rancorous, over bearing, and use attack dog style debate tactics. But they are all born again Christians and love the Lord.

Suggesting otherwise is childish and a sophomoric debate tactic.

 

[Revmitchell]

A distinction without a difference.

Apparently you have no idea what it means. At this point I will leave you to your misery.

 

[agedman]

I would disagree with your interpretation, those who built their house on the rock were those trusting Christ alone to save them, Jesus is their foundation.

Those who built their house on the sand are those trusting in themselves and their works to save them.

And what was it that Jesus told people they were to do?

Jhn 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

This is why Limited Atonement is so important, if Jesus did not die for everyone, the only thing a person can trust in to assure themselves they are saved is their works.

Non-Cals do not believe in Limited Atonement. A non-Cal can safely rest in the fact that Jesus died for him personally, Jesus is his foundation.

Winman, you are mistaken as far as "limited atonement."

It is not uncommon considering very few have truly invested time to actually discern the difference between atonement and propitiation. Look at the recent thread on the issue to actually see clarification.

But you should realize that nearly all schemes (accept full peligianism) do embrace some form of a limit on reconciliation (which is what atonement means).

It is not just a "calvinist" scheme, but even Christ states that reconciliation is limited to those who believe; the unbeliever is "condemned already."

Ask any Calvinist how they know they are saved and they will go to scripture like 2 Pet 1:5-11 and give you a list of works they must do to assure themselves they are saved.

http://www.ligonier.org/learn/devotionals/make-your-election-sure/

Talk about trying to build a house of cards! Not only do you totally misrepresent what was written, but then you actually attempt to prove your own worth by misstatement and false representation.


This is too silly to even remark about other than it is what Scriptures teach as far as what is the walk of a believer or that of an unbeliever in reflection: "By their fruits you will know them."

Of course, your view must certainly mark who is and who is not truly a believer. Your view can actually look on the heart just as God does.

Ask a non-Cal how they know they are saved and they will tell you they called on Jesus to save them as the publican did. This is why Calvinists constantly criticize non-Cals for "easy-believism".

(quote by in the copy paste left out)

There ya go. Ask a Calvinist how he knows he is saved, and he will boast of his works, because that is the ONLY evidence he has.

What evidence do you have of someone being saved?

What evidence do you have of you being saved?

Other than you and God knowing your own heart, you have no proof of anyone's salvation outside of the outward refection on display by that person's manner of living.

 

[agedman]

And you need to understand this is a life or death matter.

Winman,

Who has the keys of life and death?

 

[Winman]

Once again, look what R.C. Sproul said,

John Calvin reminds us that “purity of life is not improperly called the evidence and proof of election, by which the faithful may not only testify to others that they are the children of God, but also confirm themselves in this confidence.” Work at supplementing your faith with the virtues of 2 Peter 1:5–7 so that you may grow in assurance of your salvation, and be wary of those who confess Christ and yet show no desire for holiness.

John Calvin said purity of life (works) is not improperly called the evidence and proof of election.

This is because of Limited Atonement. If you do not know if Jesus personally died for you, then you must trust in your faith itself as evidence that you are one of the true elect. And you must exhibit WORKS to prove to yourself you have true faith.

And look, that is exactly what Calvin said, he said your pure life not only testifies to others you are elect, but also "confirm themselves in this confidence". He is saying this is the foundation of your assurance or confidence, your faith itself.

This is not a person trusting in Jesus, it is a person trusting THEMSELVES. This is exactly what Jesus spoke about in Luke 18;

Luk 18:9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:

I don't know I am saved because I do good works, I know I am saved because Jesus died for me, and that Jesus promised if I come to him he would save me.

If I had to trust in my works, I would be the FIRST person at BB to go straight to hell.

No, I rely upon Jesus, his work, and his promise to save all those who come to him. That is ALL I have.

I am not saved because I am faithful to Jesus, I am saved because he will always be faithful to me.

Calvinists must rely upon their works to convince and assure themselves they even have faith. Read for yourself.

Work at supplementing your faith with the virtues of 2 Peter 1:5–7 so that you may grow in assurance of your salvation,

A Calvinist MUST work to prove to himself he has faith. R.C. Sproul is directly saying that, and yet folks cannot see what is plain before their eyes.

Calvinism teaches a man to look at himself and trust in himself to know if he is saved.

True faith looks away from self and looks only at Jesus, just as the Jews who were bitten by the fiery serpents looked to the brass serpent on a pole to save them. You don't look at yourself whatsoever.

Jhn 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

You don't look at yourself, you look to Jesus.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Wiman, you need to understand questioning the other side's salvation is out of order. Thus would just as easily apply to the Cals.