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Matthew Henry on 1 John 5:7

SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
JesusFan said:
You are just disputing textual decisions, that not grammar issues!
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Greek grammar, which ATR is wrong on

ATR on the Gospel of John

"But the Fourth Gospel has difficulties of its own. These relate in part to the book in itself. It is true there is a great similarity in language and style between the narrative parts of the book and the discourses of Jesus. It is affirmed that the writer has colored the speeches of Jesus with his own style or even made up the dialogues so that they are without historical value or at least on a much lower plane than the Synoptic Gospels as objective history" A harmony of the Gospels for students of the life of Christ : based on the Broadus Harmony in the revised version : Robertson, A. T., 1863-1934 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive, page 257
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
JesusFan said:
You are just disputing textual decisions, that not grammar issues!
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Your Throne O God…

O God (ho theos). This quotation (the fifth) is from Psa_45:7. A Hebrew nuptial ode (epithalamium) for a king treated here as Messianic. It is not certain whether ho theos is here the vocative (address with the nominative form as in Joh_20:28 with the Messiah termed theos as is possible, Joh_1:18) or ho theos is nominative (subject or predicate) with estin (is) understood: “God is thy throne” or “Thy throne is God.” Either makes good sense. ATR Word Pictures
 
C

Conan

Well-Known Member
Here is the way the KJV is suppose to read, like The Greek Bible, not the Latin.

1 John 5:5-13

5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth

7 For there are three that bear record,

8 the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God
 
J

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
Greek grammar, which ATR is wrong on

ATR on the Gospel of John

"But the Fourth Gospel has difficulties of its own. These relate in part to the book in itself. It is true there is a great similarity in language and style between the narrative parts of the book and the discourses of Jesus. It is affirmed that the writer has colored the speeches of Jesus with his own style or even made up the dialogues so that they are without historical value or at least on a much lower plane than the Synoptic Gospels as objective history" A harmony of the Gospels for students of the life of Christ : based on the Broadus Harmony in the revised version : Robertson, A. T., 1863-1934 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive, page 257
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Would agree with you on this issue, as would say that its more that John was giving the spiritual insight and meaning behind the person and message of the Lord Jesus! he was writing under the same inspiration and would have same accuracy as other 3 Authors had from Holy Spirit!
 
J

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
Greek grammar, which ATR is wrong on

ATR on the Gospel of John

"But the Fourth Gospel has difficulties of its own. These relate in part to the book in itself. It is true there is a great similarity in language and style between the narrative parts of the book and the discourses of Jesus. It is affirmed that the writer has colored the speeches of Jesus with his own style or even made up the dialogues so that they are without historical value or at least on a much lower plane than the Synoptic Gospels as objective history" A harmony of the Gospels for students of the life of Christ : based on the Broadus Harmony in the revised version : Robertson, A. T., 1863-1934 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive, page 257
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My issue with that is not on Greek Grammar, but on how he seems to hold the Gospel of John as not fully inspired in same fashion as other 3 were?
 
J

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
Conan said:
Here is the way the KJV is suppose to read, like The Greek Bible, not the Latin.

1 John 5:5-13

5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth

7 For there are three that bear record,

8 the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God
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That would be the way John had first recorded it down, correct?
 
Deacon

Deacon

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
SavedByGrace said:
Very sad for a man of his learning
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Please don't judge a man's learning by a misinterpreted paragraph in a book that was published 100 years ago.

A.T. Robertson was a highly respected Southern Baptist preacher and a renowned Greek scholar of his time.
His observations do not negate the biblical inspiration of Scripture.
His observations are still echoed by respected scholars in modern commentaries today.

Read the comment in its full context ("The Authorship of the Fourth Gospel" and the next section, "The Jesus of History") to understand a bit more of what he means and how he came to his conclusions.

You don't have to agree with him to respect his work.

Rob
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Deacon said:
misinterpreted paragraph
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like how? I have his harmony of the Gospels, and quoted directly from it, and what he says is plain heresy! he is questioning the Inspiration and Authority and Inerrancy of the Gospel of John, as well as the very Words of Jesus Christ!

I don't understand why people are more interested in someone just because they are "scholars", and then disregard what they say which is clearly againt the Bible and Evangelical theology? ATR, like many, accepted the idiotic, unproven nonsense of the "Q source" in the Gospels, which also causes more problems with it conjecture, than it tries to solve

call a spade a spade
 
J

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
Deacon said:
Please don't judge a man's learning by a misinterpreted paragraph in a book that was published 100 years ago.

A.T. Robertson was a highly respected Southern Baptist preacher and a renowned Greek scholar of his time.
His observations do not negate the biblical inspiration of Scripture.
His observations are still echoed by respected scholars in modern commentaries today.

Read the comment in its full context ("The Authorship of the Fourth Gospel" and the next section, "The Jesus of History") to understand a bit more of what he means and how he came to his conclusions.

You don't have to agree with him to respect his work.

Rob
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He did though seem to support that John had historical inaccuracies added, and was not "fully inspired" to same degree as the synoptic Gospels were, correct?
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
JesusFan said:
He did though seem to support that John had historical inaccuracies added, and was not "fully inspired" to same degree as the synoptic Gospels were, correct?
Click to expand...

The fact that ATR was a strong supporter of the Q source for the Gospels, shows that he lacked understanding on how God the Holy Spirit Inspired the Writers of the Bible. This system of textual studies is very much flawed, and unbiblical
 
J

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
The fact that ATR was a strong supporter of the Q source for the Gospels, shows that he lacked understanding on how God the Holy Spirit Inspired the Writers of the Bible. This system of textual studies is very much flawed, and unbiblical
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except that "flawed system" is also what the Kjv translators used!
 
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