McKissic asks SBC to add policy on tongues to statement of faith

Well said.

 

Could someone please write out their prayer language so we better know what is being discussed?

 

Jerome---I asked the same question several pages ago!!!

 

Rev

Did you mean Santeria? Santa Maria would usually be translated Saint Mary.

You seem to be describing Santeria . . . Which is hispanic as in from the islands . . . specifically:

www.dictionary.com

 

Ecstatic speech would be rather hard to write.

I would not hold my breath waithing for the leaders of the SBC to address this issue. If the SBC took a stance we would all of a sudden see some chameleons in leadership just like we did a few years ago.

 

gb

Ecstatic speech and utterances are not part of what Paul addressed - IMHO and the opinion of many scholars, some of whom have been misused in support of this thread.

Ecstatic speech has been in the last 100 years. Is it of God? I am not sure about that, but I do not want to call what might be from God evil . . . But, I do not feel that God is glorified ... and most of those that I have been around with this gift have not been Christians that I would want to emulate - yes, that is anecdotal.

But, the thought that the SBC partnered with all of these 'conservatives' from all of these different denominational and theological backgrounds means that we southern baptists must now accept their theology as SBC . . . is wrong.

They can form their own bapticostal groups. I would wish them well. But, to come into our denomination with the attitude that it is God's money and we should get some for our selves - is inherently wrong. Ananias and Sapphira learned that - and we should also hold ourselves and our mission from God with high regard.

If God gives the SBC a new vision - then that is one thing, but to come in and demand that we go a new direction is just wrong. If you are going that direction - keep going. Start the southern bapticostal movement. Southern Bapticostal sounds lyrical.

 

Don't forget to separate from yourself, lest your salvation find the contaminates in your soul . . .

 

gb

Have you ever wondered if your style of worship is the only style of worship that God will accept?

Are you the model that God wants us all to be like?

I thank God that you are not.

I am offended that the work of my ancestors is considered to be so base by people like you that you think it is just 'up for grabs'. Wherein we are not 'in sin', then let us practice God's Word in the manner that He leads us.

Start your own bapticostal movement. Maybe you could call it the Christian Missionary Alliance? Or the Christian Discipleship Alliance. You seem to be hung up on making Southern Baptists worship differently . . . Like I have heard so many times, "If it was good enough for Paul and Peter, then it is good enough for me."

Just because we have the money. Just because we have the buildings. Just because we have the numbers. There is no reason why we should have to change our Biblical (& historically held) theology to a new theology (even if it is also biblical).

And you cannot name a reason. And for the theology you would have us move to, there is minimal if any biblical support. And there is zero support from the southern baptist scholars you quote - or, you would have included the citation so we could check it out.

 

I know nothing about your ancestors. So how could I know what you are talking about? You should be offended at what is going on today. The work of Southern Baptists was absolutely great until some decided to abase the work of God by thinking it is theirs to keep. God blessed the work of those who sacrificed and gave to the work. But today there is infighting and men elevating men. Where is God in that?

I really don’t even give one second of thought to such a thing.

The Bible says we must worship God in spirit and in truth. Men elevating men is not worship but idolatry. Peter Lord warned of that in 1974 at a conference where he spoke.

That kind of thinking is the beginning of the downfall.

Your big buildings and money just make a mockery of God. Count how many times “we” is in your statements. Is it yours and not God’s? You statement is what I frequently encountered when I was in the SBC. I never once ever heard any SBC leaders who came into the classroom while I was in seminary to speak ever talk about what God was doing, but rather what Southern Baptists were doing. Is that the kind of theology you advocate? I hope not.

Is the SBC bigger than God? Are their buildings bigger than God? Do they have more money than God? The leaders of the Roman Empire thought they could do what they wanted. The leaders of communism thought they could do what they wanted. The people Moses led thought they could do what they wanted. How did God deal with them?

How does your statement fit in with Psa 9:20, “Put them in fear, O Lord; Let the nations know that they are but men. Selah.”?

Talking about having money and buildings means absolutely nothing. God humbles the proud.

Many years ago I was in a church which God had given a campground to with money back from the deal. Years later some of the people started grumbling about the campground because of the burden they thought it was and some warned the church about that kind of attitude. It began to divide the church some. Within about one year of the grumbling the entire campground burned to the ground with the exception of the chapel across the river. That solved the problem. The church no longer has the campground and it was given to a newly formed organization that was started to develop the campground. The campground today is a wonderful place hat has new buildings and a God honoring focus.

If you have been around the SBC very long you will have noticed a drastic change in theology since 1845 and most of it within the past few years. It has become a SBC of honoring men. Sometime read any SBC paper and notice how much is published about who gives what and how much? Show me in scripture where that honors God? Show me where the BFA has honored God and where what they did was a biblical practice. How is lending to your brother with interest honoring to God? How is lying about Dr. Dilday and to him honoring God? The papers and some of the trustees admitted that they lied. The chairman of the trustees at SWBTS was shacking up with two ladies in his church at the time. How is that honoring God? Are you saying that you are content with that kind of theology? How does that kind of theology fit in with James 1:22? Remember anything like that among your ancestors? Of course not. The early leaders were about honoring God and not protecting their property and image. A person who honors God is not about protecting their investments and image.

If your God is about proclaiming the excellencies of property ownership and having big buildings you will have a huge awakening unlike you have ever seen. I pray that you run as fast as you can and divorce yourself immediately from that kind of theology.

Eccl. 12:13-14, “The conclusion, when all has been heard, is: fear God and keep His commandments, because this applies to every person. For God will bring every act to judgment, everything which is hidden, whether it is good or evil.”

 

Did I not quote from Robertson's WPNT which you erroneously stated that he disagreed with me. It might help to check out your statements first before you attribute to him something he did write nor advocate.

I am not sure what theology you contend that I am advocating. Could you state what that might be?

Just look up the word Greek word for tongue in any decent lexicon and you can easily find what it states. Do you not have those books.

The following four books would help you to know what some leading scholars in Greek studies write. Did you noy use any of those when you were a seminary student? When I was a student at SWBTS I used those four and more. They have them in their library unless they removed them.

Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament Based on Semantic Domains 2 vols.
By Louw & Nida

Theological Dictionary of the New Testament 10 vols. Pub. By Eerdmans
Word Pictures in the New Testament 6 Volumes by A.T. Robertson
A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature by Walter Bauer and Frederick William Danker

 

I have books. About 50 on Greek and Hebrew . . .

I have looked up the words and will do so again.

But, you have not cited your quotes . . . not that I don't trust your interpretation, but you are not being consistent.

 

Futher, I am still looking to find the word glossolalia in my GNT.

So far I am unable to find the term that you continue to expound upon.

 

You won't find that word. Look up the word glwssa

Don't take my word for it and don't trust my interpretation. I am not asking you to. I am asking you to take a look at some resources yourself. If I am wrong then tell me. At the same timed I believe you are wrong in some areas and am challenging you on the basis of the study I have done in the past.

Lexicons are used much like a dictionary. That would be much like me quoting a dictionary.

Personally, I do not have a lot of time right now because I have some research I must get done.


A concordance will do. In fact a concordance is often the best tool one possesses if they know how to use it properly. A cursory study of each verse where the word for tongue is used will reveal a great deal about how it is used. It is quite hard to argue with context.


A Greek concordance search revealed where glwssa was used

Mark 7:33
Mark 7:35
Mark 16:17
Luke 1:64
Luke 16:24
Acts 2:3, 4
Acts 2:11
Acts 2:26
Acts 10:46
Acts 19:6
Roma 3:13
Roma 14:11
1Cor 12:10
1Cor 12:28
1Cor 12:30
1Cor 13:1
1Cor 13:8
1Cor 14:2
1Cor 14:4-6
1Cor 14:9
1Cor 14:13,14
1Cor 14:18,19
1Cor 14:22, 23
1Cor 14:26, 27
1Cor 14:39
Phil 2:11
Jame 1:26
Jame 3:5, 6
Jame 3:8
1Pet 3:10
1Joh 3:18
Reve 5:9
Reve 7:9
Reve 10:11
Reve 11:9
Reve 13:7
Reve 14:6
Reve 16:10
Reve 17:15

Sometime do a www.google.com search on Eleusinian Mysteries and you willl find some more parallels with what Paul was dealing with at the time.

 

gb

When you get the time . . . I can teach you how to use 'tools'.

Until then, a page reference to Robertson's WPNT would be fair . . .

 

Look up Robertson's comments on 1 Cor 14:16, 19 in his Word Pictures.

My version is an online version, so it doesn't have page numbers.

It is available through e-sword, if you would like it that way.

 

Your request would be like me giving you the page number out of a dictionary.

Two people gave you some verse references in Robertson's WPNT. Look at posts 115 and 118

In a lexicon all you have to do is look up the word. That would be like me giving you the page number out of a dictionary.

 

OH

So the two of you are using an on-line searchable version . . . Kinda like me using a dictionary and giving you the page number . . .

 

It's a matter of looking up the verse number. Robertson goes in order. It's easy to find in print or online if you know the verse numbers.

EDIT:
I did find another online version. Here are the direct links:

http://www.searchgodsword.org/com/rwp/view.cgi?book=1co&chapter=014&verse=016

http://www.searchgodsword.org/com/rwp/view.cgi?book=1co&chapter=014&verse=019

 

Where did you get that idea that mine is an online version? Mine came with GRAMCORD.

 

Are you just interested in perpetuating your own theology or are you interested in being challenged? You indicated earlier that you were going to show me how to use “tools” but you failed the initial test of knowing what word to look up when you admitted “Futher, I am still looking to find the word glossolalia in my GNT.”

I have asked you the following questions and am not aware of receiving any response.

Could you show me or give a reference where Robertson wrote otherwise or where he mentioned tongues has ceased? Maybe I missed it but I am unable to find it.

How would you interpret the following passage in 1 Cor. 14:26, 28, "What is the outcome then, brethren? When you assemble, each one has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. If anyone speaks in a tongue, it should be by two or at the most three, and each in turn, and one must interpret; but if there is no interpreter, he must keep silent in the church; and let him speak to himself and to God.”


Is the SBC bigger than God? Are their buildings bigger than God? Do they have more money than God? The leaders of the Roman Empire thought they could do what they wanted. The leaders of communism thought they could do what they wanted. The people Moses led thought they could do what they wanted. How did God deal with them?

How does your statement fit in with Psa 9:20, “Put them in fear, O Lord; Let the nations know that they are but men. Selah.”?