Mdivs

[Pastor Shaun]

Hey everyone,
I am looking into taking a class or two while finishing my Bachelors degree. What does everyone think of Masters International School of Divinity. I know they are not accredited but I am looking at increasing my knowledge of the Bible.

Thoughts?

 

[StefanM]

Why not just focus on your Bachelors?

Also, I wouldn't pay a dime for an unaccredited course. You can find resources cheaper, and you can read books.

 

[Havensdad]

Why not just focus on your Bachelors?

Also, I wouldn't pay a dime for an unaccredited course. You can find resources cheaper, and you can read books.

#1 There are unaccredited schools that are equal to their accredited counterparts. I would say, don't spend money on a "bad" unaccredited school.

#2 I am sorry, but have tried all three. You simply do not learn as much, nor learn as fast, simply reading books, as you do in an organized structured program, with assignments, due dates OUTSIDE OBJECTIVE critiquing of your work, etc. Also, most real dist. ed. programs provide an online tutor, or else ability to contact and discuss subjects/questions with the Prof., through E-mail or such. Books simply cannot compete (although they are great and necessary!).

Stefan> Don't be an academic snob. :thumbs:

 

[StefanM]

I'm not an academic snob. I only have a BA. Simply put, though, unaccredited schools are too expensive for what they provide, especially on the master's level.

You won't be able to teach in any reputable institution. Even the "good" unaccredited schools prefer accredited degrees.

You will have a very difficult time entering higher programs at reputable institutions. This is even the case among accredited schools. Some ATS schools won't even accept regionally accredited seminaries' degrees. They'll laugh at the thought of an unaccredited one.

Unaccredited schools are NOT equal to accredited institutions, not even the best ones. Why? The utility of their credits. You may learn a lot, but your transcripts will be almost worthless.

If you are interested in a quality distance ed. program with tutors, the South African seminaries are an excellent choice. They are reasonable in price, too.

 

[preachinjesus]

Hey everyone,
I am looking into taking a class or two while finishing my Bachelors degree. What does everyone think of Masters International School of Divinity. I know they are not accredited but I am looking at increasing my knowledge of the Bible.

Thoughts?

Why don't you just go to iTunes U, hit up one of the seminaries listed, watch/listen to the videos availbale and read the texts....FOR FREE and grow in your knowledge.

Save your $$$$ and don't waste it on courses that won't transfer. What courses are you thinking about taking? Might help us too.

 

[TCGreek]

Hey everyone,
I am looking into taking a class or two while finishing my Bachelors degree. What does everyone think of Masters International School of Divinity. I know they are not accredited but I am looking at increasing my knowledge of the Bible.

Thoughts?

Normally I wouldn't recommend an unaccredited school, but it all depends on what you're going to do with the degree. Just stay away from bad ones.

BJU, before it was TRACS accredited, went unaccredited for many years. So it's not true that all unaccredited schools are a waste of money.

I don't know a lot about Masters International, but Louisiana Baptist University and Columbia Evangelical Seminary have been discussed quite a bit here. Just do a search.

 

[Mr. E]

A reputable alternative... free too!

Hey everyone,
I am looking into taking a class or two while finishing my Bachelors degree. What does everyone think of Masters International School of Divinity. I know they are not accredited but I am looking at increasing my knowledge of the Bible.

Thoughts?

Good day Pastor Shaun!
There's info on MISD in this forum, listed by school name. Dr. Tentmaker has just finished his doctoral studies with them and shared some insights. Gordon Conwell also provides free online learning via their semlink- http://www.gcts.edu/ockenga/dimensions/index.php. It's for personal enrichment, but it does offer a solid and respectable way to gain more biblical knowledge while you are finishing your undergrad work. Good luck in your studies.

 

[StefanM]

BJU, before it was TRACS accredited, went unaccredited for many years. So it's not true that all unaccredited schools are a waste of money.

It's not that they are a complete waste, but most charge more than they should, especially when you consider the (lack of) utility of their credits.

 

[TCGreek]

It's not that they are a complete waste, but most charge more than they should, especially when you consider the (lack of) utility of their credits.

StefanM, then we're in agreement. I think it's outrageous what some charge. You're definitely correct.

 

[Havensdad]

I'm not an academic snob. I only have a BA. Simply put, though, unaccredited schools are too expensive for what they provide, especially on the master's level.

You won't be able to teach in any reputable institution. Even the "good" unaccredited schools prefer accredited degrees.

You will have a very difficult time entering higher programs at reputable institutions. This is even the case among accredited schools. Some ATS schools won't even accept regionally accredited seminaries' degrees. They'll laugh at the thought of an unaccredited one.

Unaccredited schools are NOT equal to accredited institutions, not even the best ones. Why? The utility of their credits. You may learn a lot, but your transcripts will be almost worthless.

If you are interested in a quality distance ed. program with tutors, the South African seminaries are an excellent choice. They are reasonable in price, too.

There are good unaccredited programs which are recognized by other bodies. For instance Whitefield Theological Seminary is a good choice if you wish to be involved in ministry in a Reformed Church. Several Reformed Churches recognize them, as well as the Reformed Presbyterian Curch General Assembly.

Also, there are unaccredited degrees that do NOT cost much, and that are accepted for transfer credits at some Accredited universities. For instance, I did a A.R.S. at Nations University for 100 bucks. It was a very rigorous program, required a lot of writing, etc. I then transferred that to SATS. I got full credit for my degree. And it saved me about 2000 bucks toward my BTh there. Liberty U has already replied that they will accept me into the M. Div. program with my SATS BTh, if I so choose. If I GO that route (which I haven't decided...a MTh from Sats for 2800 total sounds tempting), I will end up with the same degree as if I went to Liberty the entire time, but will have saved at LEAST 8000 bucks or so....

So, again I say, unaccredited degrees can be just as good (or better) than accredited ones....

 

[Rhetorician]

Havensday Reply

There are good unaccredited programs which are recognized by other bodies. For instance Whitefield Theological Seminary is a good choice if you wish to be involved in ministry in a Reformed Church. Several Reformed Churches recognize them, as well as the Reformed Presbyterian Church General Assembly.

Also, there are unaccredited degrees that do NOT cost much, and that are accepted for transfer credits at some Accredited universities. For instance, I did a A.R.S. at Nations University for 100 bucks. It was a very rigorous program, required a lot of writing, etc. I then transferred that to SATS. I got full credit for my degree. And it saved me about 2000 bucks toward my BTh there. Liberty U has already replied that they will accept me into the M. Div. program with my SATS BTh, if I so choose. If I GO that route (which I haven't decided...a MTh from Sats for 2800 total sounds tempting), I will end up with the same degree as if I went to Liberty the entire time, but will have saved at LEAST 8000 bucks or so....

So, again I say, unaccredited degrees can be just as good (or better) than accredited ones....

Hello to all:

If I could get to one of the "SBC Big Six" it would certainly be worth it. Also, you could get to one of their centers around the country. There is no better learning or no better deal anywhere. In fact, it makes me angry on some level that the SBC allows other denominational people to come and get their degree at 1/3 to 1/2 of what they would pay at their own denominational schools.

They are all also RA and ATS accredited. Anyone who is interested should check it out. You can always show the courses taken on a transcript and then transfer them to another institution.

Our tithe dollars, of the SBC churches, are subsidizing these other folk. Go figure!

"That is all!"

 

[Havensdad]

Hello to all:

If I could get to one of the "SBC Big Six" it would certainly be worth it. Also, you could get to one of their centers around the country. There is no better learning or no better deal anywhere. In fact, it makes me angry on some level that the SBC allows other denominational people to come and get their degree at 1/3 to 1/2 of what they would pay at their own denominational schools.

They are all also RA and ATS accredited. Anyone who is interested should check it out. You can always show the courses taken on a transcript and then transfer them to another institution.

Our tithe dollars, of the SBC churches, are subsidizing these other folk. Go figure!

"That is all!"

I would LOVE to go to one of the "Big Six"!
I am SBC, so I believe I get additional discounts, do I not?

Several problems, though...

#1 I am not sure they would take my credits from SATS. I bet they would, but I am not sure.

#2 (this is the biggie), they do not offer any Masters programs through 100 percent distance ed., like Liberty. I am a full time travelin' preacher, and I cannot just "take off" to go to seminary for two years (or even 1 year through a blended program).

So, if I go that route, I believe I am stuck with Liberty.

 

[paidagogos]

#1 There are unaccredited schools that are equal to their accredited counterparts. I would say, don't spend money on a "bad" unaccredited school.

#2 I am sorry, but have tried all three. You simply do not learn as much, nor learn as fast, simply reading books, as you do in an organized structured program, with assignments, due dates OUTSIDE OBJECTIVE critiquing of your work, etc. Also, most real dist. ed. programs provide an online tutor, or else ability to contact and discuss subjects/questions with the Prof., through E-mail or such. Books simply cannot compete [emphasis added](although they are great and necessary!).

Stefan> Don't be an academic snob. :thumbs:

I cannot refute what works for you from a perspective of one but I can say that independent learning can be more efficient for the motivated, intelligent and educated student. Much schooling is artificially contrived experiences to approximate real life. On the other hand, if one is studying with a goal in view, he or she may actually learn more in less time. Also, at a certain point in one's education, the student may be as competent, or more competent, than his teacher. Thus, I don't buy your premise when it is generalized beyond your own experience. Independent study can work better for others. Call it snobbery if you like.

 

[preachinjesus]

One thing to consider is that in the coming years unacreditted degrees and classes from such schools are going to be scrutinized. For instance, Rev Johnny Hunt, the current SBC President, has already come under scrutiny for his unearned degrees from several unacreditted schools. It got so big at the time of his election to the presidency (not salvation, ha) several major news outlets carried a story about it.

You choose where you go. Just remember there might be consequences for those decisions down the road. I'm not a fan of unacreditted schools. You can spend your money better imho. But you know what you are called to in this life.

 

[Havensdad]

One thing to consider is that in the coming years unacreditted degrees and classes from such schools are going to be scrutinized. For instance, Rev Johnny Hunt, the current SBC President, has already come under scrutiny for his unearned degrees from several unacreditted schools. It got so big at the time of his election to the presidency (not salvation, ha) several major news outlets carried a story about it.

You choose where you go. Just remember there might be consequences for those decisions down the road. I'm not a fan of unacreditted schools. You can spend your money better imho. But you know what you are called to in this life.

Unaccredited does not mean unearned. If you are in an unaccredited college and your teacher requires you to write a 20 page assignment, and another mans teacher in an accredited college requires the same assignment, how is that not earned?? Why is it, that you believe schools must submit to a government approved body, in order to be quality?

BTW, the trend seems to be going in the opposite direction from what I have seen. More and more colleges are willing to take transfers from quality unaccredited institutions.

 

[StefanM]

My problem with unaccredited degrees is as follows:

Many (not all) prey on the uneducated. You think, OH! It would be easy to get a degree. It's so flexible, and they give me life experience credit! Plus they are cheaper!

Then after they graduate, they realize that their degree is not accepted in most places, after they lose thousands of dollars in tuition. The school, though, has their funds.

What REALLY irks me is when a school offers some pseudo-accreditation. If you are unaccredited, be honest about it. There may be situations in which an unaccredited program might be beneficial, but you shouldn't try to trick your students.

Another factor: the offering of the doctoral degree. There is no reason for an unaccredited school to offer a doctoral degree in an academic field. Why? What good would a PhD or ThD in theology do? You won't be able to teach with it. You will probably learn some things, but your degree won't be recognized. For a degree that is intended to produce scholars, accreditation is imperative. That's just the way the system works. I don't think it's the best, but I think it's what we have.

You don't need a title to receive an education. I have no problem with unaccredited institutions offering an education. I do have a problem with them passing out "doctorates" as if they mean something in the academic realm. All it constitutes is a useless title, and if you're doing it for the title, you're doing it for the wrong reasons (accredited or not).

I'm not against unaccredited schools, per se. I just would never spend my money in that fashion. I'd rather just learn through personal study. Others may have their reasons.

I also don't think that if a school is accredited it is a good school. Many accredited schools are not what they should be.

 

[StefanM]

There are good unaccredited programs which are recognized by other bodies. For instance Whitefield Theological Seminary is a good choice if you wish to be involved in ministry in a Reformed Church. Several Reformed Churches recognize them, as well as the Reformed Presbyterian Curch General Assembly.

Also, there are unaccredited degrees that do NOT cost much, and that are accepted for transfer credits at some Accredited universities. For instance, I did a A.R.S. at Nations University for 100 bucks. It was a very rigorous program, required a lot of writing, etc. I then transferred that to SATS. I got full credit for my degree. And it saved me about 2000 bucks toward my BTh there. Liberty U has already replied that they will accept me into the M. Div. program with my SATS BTh, if I so choose. If I GO that route (which I haven't decided...a MTh from Sats for 2800 total sounds tempting), I will end up with the same degree as if I went to Liberty the entire time, but will have saved at LEAST 8000 bucks or so....

So, again I say, unaccredited degrees can be just as good (or better) than
accredited ones....

As a note: there is a BIG difference between the BA level and the MA level. Schools often accept students with unaccredited BAs to their master's programs. They generally have limits, and you may have to enter on probation, but it happens often.

The MA level, though, is a different situation. Hardly any accredited school will accept unaccredited master's degrees, and some won't even accept accredited degrees unless they have specialty accreditation (like ATS or APA).

 

[Havensdad]

As a note: there is a BIG difference between the BA level and the MA level. Schools often accept students with unaccredited BAs to their master's programs. They generally have limits, and you may have to enter on probation, but it happens often.

The MA level, though, is a different situation. Hardly any accredited school will accept unaccredited master's degrees, and some won't even accept accredited degrees unless they have specialty accreditation (like ATS or APA).

So it seems like one would almost be stupid for paying thousands of dollars for their BA degree, when they can get an unaccredited one accepted so readily.

 

[StefanM]

So it seems like one would almost be stupid for paying thousands of dollars for their BA degree, when they can get an unaccredited one accepted so readily.

Not at all. UA degrees are still not the majority. Also, you will probably be admitted on probation. You will not be as competitive for scholarships and assistantships. Some programs won't admit you at all. Bottom line: if you are interested in pursuing higher education, you're much better off getting a BA from an accredited school. You MIGHT be able to get by with an UA degree, but it's no guarantee.

Also, it depends on what unaccredited degree you get. A school with a good reputation will get you mileage. An unheard of program probably won't get you much. Some schools will not accept ANY UA degrees. Most won't accept your credits for transfer. You can find a few that might, but the exceptions don't make the rule.

 

[Havensdad]

Another factor: the offering of the doctoral degree. There is no reason for an unaccredited school to offer a doctoral degree in an academic field. Why? What good would a PhD or ThD in theology do? You won't be able to teach with it. You will probably learn some things, but your degree won't be recognized. For a degree that is intended to produce scholars, accreditation is imperative. That's just the way the system works. I don't think it's the best, but I think it's what we have.

You don't need a title to receive an education. I have no problem with unaccredited institutions offering an education. I do have a problem with them passing out "doctorates" as if they mean something in the academic realm. All it constitutes is a useless title, and if you're doing it for the title, you're doing it for the wrong reasons (accredited or not).

Again I disagree. Looking at the rosters of many large, accredited seminaries, you can find those with doctoral degrees from unaccredited universities. For instance, there are several people with degrees from the like of BJU (from before they were accredited) LBU, etc. Also, a doctorate degree, even from an a unaccredited university, helps ones ministerial job options. Yes, that MDiv. is great. But if you have a D. Min or even a ThD, it certainly puts you above the other possible candidates.