ME (Millennial Exclusion) Posts

We shall be saved from wrath through Jesus Christ. Why? Because we have been justified through His blood.

It's a done deal. Signed, sealed, and delivered. The Child of God will not be cast into outer darkness/hell, for he or she is justifide through the blood of the Lamb and shall be saved from wrath through their advocate, Jesus Christ the Righteous.

 

I find it quite ironic that those who believe that salvation can be lost or forfeited have no problem seeing that these warnings are given to saved people. But, so many who see OSAS have to intentionally shut their eyes to these warnings, lest it challenge their beliefs.

DPT, while I disagree with you what they can lose, it's at least heartening to see someone who can see that these warnings are to saved people.

 

I have asked this several times with no response. Maybe you could answer, Lacy.

What is the purpose of a father's discipline/chastening?

 

You make the common mistake of equating his death with the shed blood.

2 Corinthians 5:14: "For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:" He died for all.

Matthew 26:28: "Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins." The blood was shed for many.

The blood is not mentioned at all in the book of Genesis in relation to the sacrifice. The blood was not mentioned until the Passover, and the blood was only for the firstborn. The Passover lamb or goat was slain for the entire family.

You might say, "It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if you sacrifice and animal, there will be blood." You're right.

But, I'm not interested in rocket science; I'm interested in what the Holy Spirit actually says.

He died that all might be saved. He shed his blood for many.

 

1. So this is that potential atonement aspect. I see.

2. On the other hand, my sins have already been paid for in full in Jesus' one time for all time atonement (Heb 10:14).

 

I mean all those parables that Jesus has given an explanation to.

 

Yes, this is the doctrine of OSPS.

Once Saved Potentially Saved :laugh: :laugh:

 

It is twofold. To bring us into line. Or to punish us for refusing to get back into line. Sometimes it is so we will quit sinning. sometimes it is because we refused to quit sinning.

2 Samuel 7:14-15
14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:
15 But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee.

Hosea 7:11-16
11 Ephraim also is like a silly dove without heart: they call to Egypt, they go to Assyria.
12 When they shall go, I will spread my net upon them; I will bring them down as the fowls of the heaven; I will chastise them, as their congregation hath heard.
13 Woe unto them! for they have fled from me: destruction unto them! because they have transgressed against me: though I have redeemed them, yet they have spoken lies against me.
14 And they have not cried unto me with their heart, when they howled upon their beds: they assemble themselves for corn and wine, and they rebel against me.
15 Though I have bound and strengthened their arms, yet do they imagine mischief against me.
16 They return, but not to the most High: they are like a deceitful bow: their princes shall fall by the sword for the rage of their tongue: this shall be their derision in the land of Egypt.

 

Yeah, but which salvation(s) are you talking about? ME people believe in at least 3 salvations. :laugh:

 

What is wrong with this picture??

."

So how much sinning do you plan on doing in eternity? After the 1000 years of discipline, don't you go on to be with the Lord forever? Is this when your chastisement pays off? You will quit sinning in heaven?

I have news for you. There will be no sin and no temptation to sin in heaven when we will be with the Lord. So it seems your chastisement will be wasted.

If this weren't so sad, it would be funny.

 

Honestly speaking, I find myself having to question what terms I use in a discusssion, wondering if I'm saying the same thing as my opponent.

 

As I just posted in another thread, they use this difference as ammunition. They claim that they never say salvation is by works, but they're not coming clean on it. They're really saying they never say SPIRIT salvation is by works.... but they DO say SOUL salvation is by works.

It's like dealing with con-men. One reason I have them on ignore is because I don't think it's safe for anyone to engage them without their lawyer present.

 

There is no temptation, because there is no tempter there.

Agreed.

I agree 100%

Wasted in what way? If I am grossly disobedient and unrepentant, God's chastening will be my reward. This has been proven over and over.

I will say that I appreciate the very decent, charitable tone of this post and that you are honestly trying to reason through your arguments instead of one-liners and railing. I mean that in all sincerity.

Here's where I see your argument break down. You say that chastisement after death is a waste. Was it a waste when God killed some Christians in Corinth? Or Annanias and Saphira?

They were saved. They were bad. God killed them. Where is their chance to get back in line? It was fileal punishment. I honestly cannot see any diference in the purpose of chastening by death and Millennial Exclusion.

Big difference in severity, but not in purpose.

 

Thanks for the compliment. I'm trying to behave myself. :tongue3:

The chastisement of Corinthian belivers was done in this life, not after physical death. There is no point in disciplining after death as none of us will be tempted with sin ever again. Therefore, there will be no sin to avoid. All chance of behavior change is in this life. Once you die, there is no more opportunity to improve. The people that God took in Corinth never got another chance to earn rewards. We are told of loss of rewards. Evidentally God has all kinds of wonderful things set aside for us in eternity, but if you waste your gifts while in this earthly body, you are going to lose some or all those wonderful things, yet you will be saved and never see the lake of fire. I would imagine that there will be a lot of people who will feel regret for having wasted what God gave them. I don't think this is something to take lightly, as someone keeps referring to people who still get "their slice of paradise pie". I do not want lose any of the good things God has planned to give me, but if I do not do well in my Christian walk, I will lose some very important things for all eternity. There is bound to be regret suffered forever.

 

I find it truly amazing that with all this discussion, no one condemn this kind of belief.
I always thought I would be safe if I met a Christian in a dark alley, but if Christians are as has been said here and no one condemns such belief, then we should be more afraid of Christians than the world, for theives and robbers are hidden behind the guise of a Christian. Rapist, and he may not care if it a man or woman, hid behind the guise of a Christian. The person you sit next to in the pew, may be a practicing pedophile, and believe it or not according to this doctrine, he is sanctified. I find it amazing none of you condemned this belief that people like this are sanctified, sanctified. This is more like "believe it or not". So, BBob comes in and says what many on here would like to say, but don't. Someone better stand up for Christ Like, not devil like. I will stand for the Lord and the Lord's way of living until I die. I have taught for going on thirty six years for Christians to be Christ like and live a Christian life, not for ME, but for eternal life and that being in Heaven. There was only a remnant found when He came to His own, and likewise, He said a remnant will be found under the Grace Covenant also. I will leave this with you, if you dislike me, so be it, but make it as sure as you can in this life, for you will only pass this way but once and if you do not have it right, then you will not hear your name called, in the resurrection.

 

And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,


In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:


Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord,(HELL) and from the glory of his power;

 

Perhaps you should read the epistle (1Corinthians). That would be a good start wouldn't it. Paul did condemn "this kind of stuff," didn't he? He never condoned sin, any of it. He always condemned it. Yet, at the same time he declared the saints at Corinth as sanctified. They were saved. They were sanctified. And if any of them died, having committed any of those sins even unconfessed they would have gone to heaven. The blood of Jesus covers all our sins.

Abraham lied twice about Sarah, once in Gerar and once in Egypt (Genesis 12 and 20). Both times were after he was declared righteous by God. Sin doesn't send a believer to Hell, not even unconfessed sin. A believer goes to heaven because of his standing before God, not because of whether or not he has sin (unconfessed or not) after he was saved.

 

I believe you are making the assumption Paul is saying everyone who showed up for service at the Church in Corinth was saved. This same assumption I believe leads you to write that everyone guilty of the above was saved. I don't agree with your assumptions. I read verse 2 as a greeting to those in the Church who were saved and not to imply everyone to include those you mentioned above is saved. For a child of God with a transformed mind would not live such a life.

In every congregation, there are some folks that are AT Church but not IN the Church.

6:9 not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Now notice in the above portion I bolded he says "such WERE some of you". Pat tense. He didn't say the ones he associated with the kingdom were still guilty or partakers of the list he listed, he said they were as to say they previously were guilty but now are justified by Christ.

Later in this letter Paul makes it plain that some in Corinth believed in a strange doctorine, one that was foreign to the Church which he proudly proclaimed his apostleship. He pointed out that not all in Corinth believed the same Gospel. Here is an example;

15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

This says there were some in that list you listed above that didn't even believe in the resurrection which is part of the foundation of the Gospel. You assumed they were listed with the saved. I don't agree with that assumption.

Thin ice here, I would like for you to expound on the portion I bolded before I respond. I agree confession is not the means to the end called salvation, however I would caution any believer who feels there is absolutely no need to confess; part of repenting is the confession.

Prov 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

 

I reread it again for the uptenth time, couldn't find what you advocate.


1 Corinthians 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:(He didn't say everyone there, but "to them" that are sanctified and that must be inwardly, or "born again") Sanctified means to make Holy, and no flesh is Holy yet but the Flesh of the Lord.
Really the only sanctified I can read of is the unbelieving husband is sanctified that their children not be unclean. I do not believe this is the Sanctification we have received inwardly and will receive outwardly in the resurrection. It is foolish to say the flesh is sanctified, which means to make Holy and Pure. The flesh is still corruptle. You do error again. I am just sad most do not call you on it.

Thank to JAuthor, LeBuick and Mike
BBob,

 

Finally, a couple of people are trying to answer the point of the thread. We now have one passage that even begins to resemble a proof of hell for unbelievers.

7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Considering the passage alone, we could say that unbelievers are destroyed with fire at his coming. They will never be with the Lord, but will have been destroyed forever. This annihilation is their punishment. The passage says nothing about a conscious torment in hell.

Now this interpretation would be false. The rich man and Lazarus shows the folly of annihilation. Based on this passage in Luke, we can reasonably infer that the destruction in 2 Thessalonians involves conscious torment.

But without our passage in Luke, why can we infer that this speaks of a place of conscious torment called hell? The answer is we can not conclusively prove that hell is a place of conscious torment without going outside of the Pauline epistles.

The point is that conscious suffering in hell, (whether believer or unbeliever) is often inferred in Paul's scriptures, but plainly taught elsewhere.

Do we have other scriptures that might prove otherwise?

P.S. For those not following the thread closely, all scripture is given by inspiration of God. It is perfectly acceptable to go outside the Pauline epistles, and because a doctrine is not expressly stated and/or completely developed in the Pauline epistles, does not mean the doctrine is false.