ME (Millennial Exclusion) Posts

I don't see this as a difficult passage at all, nor do I see how it raises issues for OSAS. Can you elaborate?

The part about chopping stuff off seems rather obvious to me. Which would you rather? Satisfy the lusts of the flesh and have that flesh end up in hell? Or chop off what tempts you and end up in heaven? This is not literal, since nobody actually chops off their offending flesh. It's just a dramatic comparison to drive home the point that crime (temporal satisfaction of the flesh) does not pay.

To whom is this addressed? To the same people to whom all scripture is addressed. Everyone. Does it apply to the saved? No.

 

Sure, I'll give it a shot anyway. If the part about the hand chopping and eye gouging is being addressed to John, and the other disciples, I don't see how we can avoid the "you" including them, and by implication, other believers. For me, this "appears" to raise issues with OSAS since we have Jesus warning believers against hell. Note that I said appears, not does, raise issues.

OTOH, if the passage is really from the sermon on the mount and John has just sort of dropped it in there in the middle of a conversation Jesus was having with the disciples, then it could be speaking only to unbelievers, or at least mainly to unbelievers, as in Matthew 5.

The reason I mentioned that it "appears" to conflict with OSAS is that I figured that was where the ME/KA folks would go with it, as an argument that the passage MUST be pointing to the "1000 years in hell" scenario. I was anticipating their argument.

Les

 

Wait, there is a rapture where people are left behind? Wasn't that a fiction story some guy names Lahaye wrote? lol

 

I get it now, thanks!

 

You have anticipated correctly.

If the "hell" warnings are unmarked, unannounced, sudden, parenthetical, warnings to unbelievers (which I cannot see at all from the text), then what are the implications?

If you want to avoid hell (Which I assume only happens if you get saved) then the way to do it (get saved?) is to cut off your hand/foot and/or pluck out an eye?

Now whether it is a figurative or a literal cutting, neither changes the fact that this is a works based salvation. The Gospel says "believe on Christ." There seems to be no way around this paradox other than to say the believer is indeed in danger of "Hell".

Granted the duration is not specified here, but the time period is specified indirectly in verse 47 in the phrase "the Kingdom of God." Now there in one passage are two very specific tenants of the (particular brand of) ME that I believe.(ie. Where and When the disobedient Christians who miss the Kingdom (1 Cor 6:10; Gal 5:21; Eph 5:5) go.

Now as to when they get out? I only see one place Rev 20:15. There might be a get out of jail early card, but I cannot find it. (perhaps in Matt 18:34)

Lacy

 

Great! Another foot or eye?? You have not cut off or plucked out! You imagine you have but you better think again! Those are CONSEQUENCES in the Kingdom of Christ! You ARE taking scripture lightly!

At least this shows why you believe in ME --- you don't take Christ seriously. Millennial Exclusion sounds better than what Christ has in store for rebels!


skypair

 

How do you know?

 

1. I find it incredible that 1 Cor 6:10; Gal 5:21 and Eph 5:5 can be used to say that Christians who didn't measure up, will go to the lake of fire.

2. Then I find it extremely disturbing that Rev. 20:15 is applied to those believers who didn't measure up.

3. I am thankful to God that for those whom Christ has died, do not have to fear the lake of fire because they didn't measure up.

a. "And those whom he justified, these he also glorified" (Rom 8:30).

b. "For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified" (Heb.10:14).

c. "For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

4. Saints of God,why fear when we have so many blessed promises?

5. Run I say, from this doctrine the seeks to bind you in fear.

 

Hell! Not the Lake of fire.

All these verses are directed to Christians. All these verses say that a Christian who gets caught unrepentant in these gross sins, will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven".

Please explain me why it says "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." instead of "everyone was thrown in."

At most, you can only say that, of those appearing at the GWT, only those NOT FOUND in the book of life are cast into the LOF.

What of those who are found? Why do we assume that there are none, especially with the careful way this verse is worded?

If I said of my sixth graders, "Everyone who was not a boy, went to recess!" Would it even be a little bit logical to automatically assume that all my students are girls? Wouldn't I instead say, "Everybody went to recess," and hence "Everyone was cast into the LOF"?

Praise God!!!! Me too. I'm thankful he only threatened us with Hell and not with losing our salvation!

Amen!


Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Amen!

1 Thessalonians 4:3-4
3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;

Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Why?

2 Corinthians 5:10-11
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

What's more scary? You do bad and don't repent, Your loving Heavenly Father will chasten you in this life. You still don't repent, He'll get you at the JSOC. (1 Timothy 5:24)

Or this: If you sin and don't repent, you prove you were never saved to begin with and WILL GO to the LOF but not for 1000 years but rather a kazillion times infinity years. (I know that one makes me feel sure and secure.)

Lacy

Arminianism=Calvanism

Neither really believe you can lose your salvation. (One says you can't and one makes it so hard that practically you really can't)

Neither really believes in security. (One says you can lose salvation and the other says you have have good works to prove your salvation)

Same thing either way.

 

This point was buried on the other thread so I'm making it again on this more appropriate thread.



Hell is cast into the LOF at the GWT. All those unbelievers resurrected to the GWT in Rev 20, have been in Hell since they died, but their bodies have been in the Grave!

No unbeliever will ever be placed bodily into Hell. Their ressurrected bodies will be cast into the LOF!

So how could the "Hell warnings" in Matt 10:28, (Mark 9:41-50), that warn someone capable of being cast bodily into Hell (Not the LOF) apply to anyone but the Christian Disciples (and us) to whom the warnings were directed?

No one has a ressurrected body before Hell is destroyed in the LOF except those ressurrected before the Millennial Kingdom. The GWT is after the MK and unbelievers there are never cast bodily into Hell but rather into the LOF

"Till my change come, -Lacy

 

1. 1 Cor 6:11: Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord..." (emphasis mine).

2. No one for whom Christ died will be thrown into the lake of fire. Period.

3. If you are looking for some, then you'll find them.

4. We suffer with him in this life (Col.1:24; Phil 3:9-10; 1 Pet 4:12-14).

5. Don't stop at v.12 read v.13, "For it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure."

6. What is meant by "we persuage men"?

 

Such were some of you (Christians who I am adressing) What about the rest?

Then why say it that way? You would never assume that there were none if you had no presuppositions. If I said "I removed all the fish that were not goldfish from the aquarium", unless you believed there were nosuch thing as goldfish, you would fully expect to find Goldfish in the tank!

I dont get it.

Amen. But if we dont?

Proves nothing but the dear sweet fact that all of the good deeds we do will ultimately bring Christ Glory for it is He that worketh in us. We will cast our crowns (If we win any) down at his feet.

[/quote]6. What is meant by "we persuage [sic] men"?[/quote]

We fear God and are persuaded by that fear, so we share the blessings and the warnings with them.

 

1. What rest?

2. The biblical author must imply before we can infer.

 

The rest of the ones being addressed that aren't the "some of you" being addressed.

Huh?

OK let me ask again. If you woke up ome morning, got on the Baptist Board and read a post that said. "Attention! All who are not Southern Baptists will now be cast into the "Lake of Non-SBC" forums."

Could anyone reading that, even a visitor for the first time, ever conclude that there were never any SBC folks on the BB?

. . .and whosoever was not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the LOF.

 

How is the When specified? I don't get that part.

Les

 

Do unbelievers go to hell?

Greetings everyone. I was wondering if anyone could systematically demonstrate that unbelievers go to hell, using only the Pauline epistles (and not counting Hebrews as Pauline).

Thanks.

 

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. (John 3:36)

Yea, and hath God said...?

 

Are John and Genesis Pauline epistles?

 

why is it necessary to use Pauline epistles only?

 

Because Paul is didactic and doctrinal. If the bible teaches something, you ought to be able to find it repeated in Paul's writings, no?