Mel Gibson, The Passion of Jesus Christ, and Baptists

[trying2understand]

double post

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by neal4christ:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />First, there is no where in the Bible that teaches that any person outside of the person of Christ or the Holy Spirit has the power to interced on our behalf.

So you don't ask others to pray for you, do you? I mean, come on, at least be consistent.

Also, as I stated before, you are not silent where the Bible is silent. You have taken a side using your understanding, just like the Catholics take the other side. And I am sorry, but the Revelation verses do not describe a scene on earth, but rather a scene in heaven. I do not teach or even necessarily believe in asking saints to pray for you, but I am honest enough to not dismiss it outright with no evidence that it doesn't take place. And if you want to play the proof card, please give some that they don't see what happens on the earth. Or is that just what you believe, based on your interpretation of the Scriptures, without any solid evidence?

In Christ,
Neal </font>[/QUOTE]The evidence for not praying to saints in Heaven is overwhelming. The evidence for saints in Heaven praying for saints on earth is overwhelming.

1. Praying to those in Heaven constitutes necromancy (praying to the dead), no matter which way you take, a practice condemned in the Bible.

2. No matter how the Catholics try to worm their way out of this their prayers (many of them) are directly addressed to Mary. They pray to Mary and not to God. I did this as a Catholic when I prayed the rosary. When I prayed a Hail Mary, it was Mary I had in mind, not God. To say otherwise would be hypociritical.

3. All prayer is worship. You can't divide up prayer into different parts. Prayer is worship and worship is due only to God. Take the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, a standard work among many denominations and look at its definition of prayer:

PRAYER
prar (deesis, proseuche, (enteuxis; for an excellent discussion of the meaning of these see Thayer's Lexicon, p. 126, under the word deesis; the chief verbs are euchomai, proseuchomai, and deomai, especially in Luke and Acts; aiteo, "to ask a favor" distinguished from erotao, "to ask a question," is found occasionally): In the Bible "prayer" is used in a simpler and a more complex a narrower and a wider signification. In the former case it is supplication for benefits either for one's self (petition) or for others (intercession). In the latter it is an act of worship which covers all soul in its approach to God. Supplication is at the heart of it, for prayer always springs out of a sense of need and a belief that God is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him (Heb 11:6). But adoration and confession and thanksgiving also find a It place, so that the suppliant becomes a worshipper. It is unnecessary to distinguish all the various terms for prayer that are employed in the Old Testament and the New Testament. But the fact should be noticed that in the Hebrew and Greek aloe there are on the one hand words for prayer that denote a direct petition or short, sharp cry of the heart in its distress (Ps 30:2; 2Co 12:8), and on the other "prayers" like that of Hannah (Job 38:8-17), which is in reality a song of thanksgiving, or that of Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ, in which intercession is mingled with doxology (Eph 3:14-21).

DHK

 

[Meercat]

DHK-

So, you say that Catholics have a doctrine of "pewology"....hmmmm....Veeery eeenteresstink!

Pardon the silliness, but WE aren't the ones going out on weekends trying to do "soul-winning" and giving out awards to people for having the most people invited to our church. When it comes to trying to fill the pews, I'd say the Baptists do this par excellence!.....is this sarcasm or something negative on my part.....NOT AT ALL! We Catholics should do the same, but we don't use the emotional "strong-arm" tactics that are too frequently employed. So, quitcherbeefin' and love your Catholic neighbor because he or she is NOT your enemy! It is NOT a sin to try and understand why we believe what we do anymore than it if for us to learn from you. - Meercat

 

[DHK]

I love the Catholics, Meercat; just hate the doctrine. The comment you refer to was to point out that the Catholics spend their time defending doctrines which are not found in the Bible, and are impossible to prove from the Bible. We derive our doctrine from the Bible, not from the Pope, the magesterium, or a catechism--but from the Bible alone.

Proverbs 11:30 The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise.

DHK

 

[BobRyan]

All prayer is communication. Prayer to the dead (no matter which dead you select) is necormancy.

There is not a single argument made "for this" in scripture.


In Christ,

Bob