Michigan Quickly Becoming New Muslim State?

[KenH]

We have to bear in mind, Roger, that a lot of American Christians don't believe in freedom...they believe in having their way, even to the point of being open to the idea of using government force to make sure they get it - as this thread has shown. And are dangerously close to showing that in that area they are not really a whole lot different than the Muslims they so despise in the actions they accuse Muslims of.

 

[Robert Snow]

We have to bear in mind, Roger, that a lot of American Christians don't believe in freedom...they believe in having their way, even to the point of being open to the idea of using government force to make sure they get it - as this thread has shown. And are dangerously close to showing that in that area they are not really a whole lot different than the Muslims they so despise in the actions they accuse Muslims of.

At least have the decency to identify the one you are talking about.

Your problem is you have a warped concept of what America is all about. This land was never settled by Christians to allow those who want to kill Christians to have a share in this religious freedom. You are also naive in thinking that there is a group of Muslims who actually respect and want to live in peace with us Christians. They hate us and will not rest until we are overthrown.

Perhaps during your next political metamorphosis you will emerge as a person who sees how dangerous this acceptance of Islam is to American freedom.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I contend it is the fear of Islam that will lead to the loss of freedoms. Switzerland this week banned any future minarets from being built. Will this lead to the banning of steeples next.

France has banned the use of Muslim head scarfs in schools. To make it equitable they also banned crosses and Christian accessories.

I keep hearing about 'Muslim Europe' but I am not seeing it in my limited travels. What I am seeing is a secular Europe and that is affecting Christians.

But what makes us think that we Christians have a Biblical right to some kind of special government favour? Do we have a Bible basis for that belief?

 

[Robert Snow]

I contend it is the fear of Islam that will lead to the loss of freedoms. Switzerland this week banned any future minarets from being built. Will this lead to the banning of steeples next.

I contend it is a lack of understanding the nature of Islam that will lead to problems, not only for the Church, but for all Americans as well!

But what makes us think that we Christians have a Biblical right to some kind of special government favour? Do we have a Bible basis for that belief?

I'm not saying Christians need special governmental favor. I'm talking about the danger Islam is to America, both Christian and non-Christian.

 

[Spinach]

I see a Muslim America more than I see a Muslim Europe at this moment.

 

[KenH]

Lay it out, Robert, what you what steps you want the government to take.

And bear in mind that whatever steps you want the government to take will have to be applied equally to the adherents of all religions, including Christianity. To not apply the law equally to all religions would be unconstitutional and unAmerican.

 

[Johnv]

If a person is concerned about the Muslim next door simply because that person is a Muslim, that says more about one's ignorance than it says about the Muslim next door.

 

[KenH]

For those Christians who are fearful of persecution(and nobody desires to be persecuted) I offer this to help comfort and strengthen you:

1 Peter 4
12 Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. 13 But rejoice insofar as you share Christ's sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed. 14 If you are insulted for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. 15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer or a thief or an evildoer or as a meddler. 16 Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in that name. 17 For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God; and if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? 18 And "If the righteous is scarcely saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?" 19 Therefore let those who suffer according to God's will entrust their souls to a faithful Creator while doing good.

 

[targus]

As I see it - the problem is yet another group demanding special rights and special accomodations at the public's expense.

In the Dearborn, MI area where Muslims now are a sizable group, special footwashing stations were built on a public funded college campus.

Of course a special footwashing sink in a restroom was not sufficient. An entire new room also had to be constructed to house the footwashing sink.

And of course one such special footwashing sink was not considered to be enough. It was necessary to construct several - at a cost of several hundred thousands of dollars - on a commuter college campus smaller in area than a city block.

Why was this done? Because Muslims were using the regular restroom hand sinks to wash their feet while at school.

After the school requested that they refrain from this practice for public health reasons the Muslim students demanded and got their special accomodations.

At the time I wondered what these same students would do upon entering the work force.

Use the office restroom sink to wash their feet - or demand that their employers build them special footwashing sink rooms?

On another note, I belive that our local airport also was pressured into providing Muslim prayer rooms for Muslim passengers waiting for flights. I do not believe that there are equivalent prayer accomdations for those of other faiths at that same airport.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I see a Muslim America more than I see a Muslim Europe at this moment.

I would agree - Europe is moving toward secularism

 

[Matt Black]

Yes, indeed. And Muslims in our midst are an opportunity for the Gospel as much as if not more than they are a threat: you try and start an evangelistic mission in Saudi Arabia and see how hard it is compared to evangelising a bunch of Saudis who come to stay/live in your metaphorical backyard. If we can't go to them, then they can at least come to us and hear the Gospel.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Yes, indeed. And Muslims in our midst are an opportunity for the Gospel as much as if not more than they are a threat: you try and start an evangelistic mission in Saudi Arabia and see how hard it is compared to evangelising a bunch of Saudis who come to stay/live in your metaphorical backyard. If we can't go to them, then they can at least come to us and hear the Gospel.

Great perspective Matt. We have had a couple of Muslims attend our services through the years.

What an opportunity for someone to move to Michigan to reach the Muslim community!

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

As I see it - the problem is yet another group demanding special rights and special accomodations at the public's expense.

In the Dearborn, MI area where Muslims now are a sizable group, special footwashing stations were built on a public funded college campus.

Of course a special footwashing sink in a restroom was not sufficient. An entire new room also had to be constructed to house the footwashing sink.

And of course one such special footwashing sink was not considered to be enough. It was necessary to construct several - at a cost of several hundred thousands of dollars - on a commuter college campus smaller in area than a city block.

Why was this done? Because Muslims were using the regular restroom hand sinks to wash their feet while at school.

After the school requested that they refrain from this practice for public health reasons the Muslim students demanded and got their special accomodations.

At the time I wondered what these same students would do upon entering the work force.

Use the office restroom sink to wash their feet - or demand that their employers build them special footwashing sink rooms?

On another note, I belive that our local airport also was pressured into providing Muslim prayer rooms for Muslim passengers waiting for flights. I do not believe that there are equivalent prayer accomdations for those of other faiths at that same airport.

I would oppose this favouring of any religious group. There are advantages to living in a secular state.

 

[Marcia]

i believe you are correct. Buddhism appeals to some of the Hollywood types but that is about it. Islam intends to eliminate the Christian Faith!

This is a little off topic but Buddhism is influencing this country in stealthy ways. In fact, there is going to be big effort to teach Buddhist based meditation and "mindfulness" to the U.S. Army Chaplains and caregivers. This type of meditation puts one into an altered state and one's mind is open to any influence wanting to come in (it's the same as a hypnotic state). It also will change your worldview. I did this type of meditation for about 14 years. There are also efforts to get it in the schools. I see this as Satan's plan to hypnotize the masses and influence their thinking while they are in this state.

So I think Islam is an external and maybe physical threat, but Buddhism and the New Age will destroy from within.

 

[Gold Dragon]

This is a little off topic but Buddhism is influencing this country in stealthy ways. In fact, there is going to be big effort to teach Buddhist based meditation and "mindfulness" to the U.S. Army Chaplains and caregivers. This type of meditation puts one into an altered state and one's mind is open to any influence wanting to come in (it's the same as a hypnotic state). It also will change your worldview. I did this type of meditation for about 14 years. There are also efforts to get it in the schools. I see this as Satan's plan to hypnotize the masses and influence their thinking while they are in this state.

So I think Islam is an external and maybe physical threat, but Buddhism and the New Age will destroy from within.

Sorry but I guess I am furthering this tangent. Mindfulness is increasingly being used in clinical psychology. I had a lecture about mindfulness and thought it was a lot of rubbish at the time. But as part of my psychiatry rotation, I have attended a couple of mindfulness sessions and actually seen some significant breakthroughs in patients with depression and anxiety from just one session.

I didn't know about the Buddhist link until reading your post. There was nothing at all Buddhist about the sessions I went to unless you think closing your eyes and concentrating on your sensations, feelings and thoughts to be exclusively Buddhist activities. Practicing mindfulness will not turn people into Buddhists any more than going to Alcoholics Anonymous meetings (which was a Christian creation) will turn you into a Christian.

 

[OldRegular]

As I see it - the problem is yet another group demanding special rights and special accomodations at the public's expense.

In the Dearborn, MI area where Muslims now are a sizable group, special footwashing stations were built on a public funded college campus.

Of course a special footwashing sink in a restroom was not sufficient. An entire new room also had to be constructed to house the footwashing sink.

And of course one such special footwashing sink was not considered to be enough. It was necessary to construct several - at a cost of several hundred thousands of dollars - on a commuter college campus smaller in area than a city block.

Why was this done? Because Muslims were using the regular restroom hand sinks to wash their feet while at school.

After the school requested that they refrain from this practice for public health reasons the Muslim students demanded and got their special accomodations.

At the time I wondered what these same students would do upon entering the work force.

Use the office restroom sink to wash their feet - or demand that their employers build them special footwashing sink rooms?

On another note, I belive that our local airport also was pressured into providing Muslim prayer rooms for Muslim passengers waiting for flights. I do not believe that there are equivalent prayer accomdations for those of other faiths at that same airport.

Actually in the absence of water a Muslim can use sand. So the solution is make a big sand box. Lot cheaper.

I do find it disturbing that people in this country, and even more so in western Europe, are so fearful of the Muslims in our midst that they will cave to their demands. Soon they will be demanding Sharia law and a stadium where the faithful can gather to watch the stoning of adulteress's, chopping off the hands of thieves, and perhaps a beheading just to liven things up a bit.

But look at it from the positive side. When they take over the country we will have grown accustomed to it. Won't be such a shock like the guillotine was to the nobles in France.

 

[OldRegular]

This is a little off topic but Buddhism is influencing this country in stealthy ways. In fact, there is going to be big effort to teach Buddhist based meditation and "mindfulness" to the U.S. Army Chaplains and caregivers. This type of meditation puts one into an altered state and one's mind is open to any influence wanting to come in (it's the same as a hypnotic state). It also will change your worldview. I did this type of meditation for about 14 years. There are also efforts to get it in the schools. I see this as Satan's plan to hypnotize the masses and influence their thinking while they are in this state.

So I think Islam is an external and maybe physical threat, but Buddhism and the New Age will destroy from within.

Thanks for the correction Marcia. I have read about the use of meditation by various groups including some corporations but it had just slipped my mind. I agree with your analysis, particularly your statement: "I think Islam is an external and maybe physical threat, but Buddhism and the New Age will destroy from within."

 

[Johnv]

I honestly wonder how many folks here actually know any American Muslim families. I compare these comments to my experience with the Muslim family that lives next door to me. Most notably, their son comes to mind, who is currenlt enlisted in the Army, and who I jsut found out is being deployed to Afghanistan.

They're proud Americans, and they bleed red, white and blue, just as much as anyone else. When I read these comments, I want to lauch out loud, because they have the ring of ignornace.

 

[Marcia]

Sorry but I guess I am furthering this tangent. Mindfulness is increasingly being used in clinical psychology. I had a lecture about mindfulness and thought it was a lot of rubbish at the time. But as part of my psychiatry rotation, I have attended a couple of mindfulness sessions and actually seen some significant breakthroughs in patients with depression and anxiety from just one session.

I didn't know about the Buddhist link until reading your post. There was nothing at all Buddhist about the sessions I went to unless you think closing your eyes and concentrating on your sensations, feelings and thoughts to be exclusively Buddhist activities. Practicing mindfulness will not turn people into Buddhists any more than going to Alcoholics Anonymous meetings (which was a Christian creation) will turn you into a Christian.

Yes, this is Buddhist, and I have been aware for some time about it's use in psychology. The concentration on sensations, feelings, and thoughts the way they teach it is for the person to be non-judgmental and to disengage from judging and thinking. This is part of the process of non-attachment in Buddhism. Since Buddhism believes that desire causes suffering (and desire includes thinking with any attachments or judgment), the way out is to cultivate non-attachment through techniques, which include various meditations and mindfulness.

Buddhism in the West is very adept at not using Buddhist or spiritual terms. People like the Dalai Lama and others have successfully marketed it as a psychological aid and process. It is, however, spiritual.

I am very, very familiar with this and have given lectures on Buddhism, particularly Buddhist meditation and mindfulness. It does affect the mind and it is spiritual in nature. I practiced Buddhist meditation for about 14 years and know it from the inside out.

I recently answered an email from a psychology student in the UK who attended a seminar on mindfulness and came across my website and asked me about this. Also, I am going to be on a radio show on Dec. 12 on the topic of Buddhist meditation. Check my website's schedule (just click on my name to get to it) to see the link to hear it live.

 

[OldRegular]

When I read these comments, I want to lauch out loud, because they have the ring of ignornace.

Feel free to lauch out loud anytime. It is still a free country; well not really!:BangHead::BangHead: