Military service

[Tom Bryant]

Yea,

Like sleeping in a bunk bed in an open bay barracks with over a hundred other guys many of which snore like a chain saw.

Like waiting in line to use the very public latrine.

Like going through a mess hall to eat a meal of food some of which you can't identify and with only ten minutes to eat it.

Like surprise 2:00AM foot locker inspections.

Like working 16 hours a day for several days/weeks/months with little or no time off.

etc, etc...

And that's the easy stuff, apart from combat duty which by the grace of God I never saw, but could have, in my 4 years.

But I would do it all again (assuming I got my youth back).

HankD

Do like the others have told you and talk to a veteran. But one BIG DON"T!!! Do not believe the recruiters when they tell you they can get you into a certain MOS!

In addition to what the others said to expect in the military, I'd add the amount of temptation you will encounter. It will be a foul mouthed world. You will meet with every kind of temptation. You'll be so tired, you won't want to read your Bible or pray. And when you do, there will be comments. You'll want to go out with your friends but can't because of what they will be doing.

I look back 40 years ago to service and I am thankful and proud that I served, but there are drawbacks.

 

[Andy_S]

Thanks, all, for this excellent input.

When I mentioned opposition from the church, I meant those who place a fundamental value on "Thou shalt not kill." They interpret it to mean that you should not kill ever, under any circumstances, no matter how seemingly justifiable the cause. Not many take this extreme view, but there are some. They have not hesitated to make their views plain to me!

 

[blackbird]

I have a good friend who is career military----now a Major in the USAF serving in a Maintenance Battalion servicing the AF's new F-22 Raptor

Another acquaintance I know ---- good Christian lady ---- a LT Colonal in the US Army----serves as a ROTC instructor in one of the New England universities

Another friend graduated from homeschool high school----could have had a career in music anywhere in the world-----came home at the end of the day and told his mom

"Momma----guess what I did today?? I joined the Marines!!!"

He did his Boot Camp at Paris Island and did 2 tours of duty in Iraq as a machine gunner on a M1 battle tank and another tour in Afganistan again on a M1 as a turret machine gunner:saint::saint: He would send his momma YouTube videos of live firefights!!!!!!!!!!! I told his momma---Girl--when he comes home---you need to hug his neck for serving his country--and then when you finish hugging his neck--you need to whip his bee-hind for sceerin' the living daylights out of you!!!

 

[freeatlast]

Thanks, all, for this excellent input.

When I mentioned opposition from the church, I meant those who place a fundamental value on "Thou shalt not kill." They interpret it to mean that you should not kill ever, under any circumstances, no matter how seemingly justifiable the cause. Not many take this extreme view, but there are some. They have not hesitated to make their views plain to me!

Andy it is true that there can be wars that are just and we have to take life to protect our own and others, but evewn in times of justice we should not be eager to take a life. It may be necessary, but it should never be one of first choice. Also the Iraq war was not one of the just wars. We had no business going there. You have to decide if you are willing to not just kill under just circumstances, but murder as that would be what would have to take place in an unjust war like Iraq. Are you willing to become a murderer just because of orders or would you be willing to disobey the orders and face court-martial once you realized they were unjust? Just because our President and leaders say we are defending this nation it is not always true so again be sure you can make it a career and not dishonor the Lord.

 

[Tom Bryant]

Andy it is true that there can be wars that are just and we have to take life to protect our own and others. However the Iraq war was not one of them. We had no business going there. You have to decide if you are willing to not just kill under just circumstances, but murder as that would be what would have to take place in an unjust war like Iraq. Are you willing to become a murderer just because of orders or would you be willing to disobey the orders and face court-martial once you realized they were unjust? Just because our President and leaders say we are defending this nation it is not always true so again be sure you can make it a career and not dishonor the Lord.

Good to know that you're around to judge the men and women who fought in Iraq as murderers.

 

[annsni]

Thanks, all, for this excellent input.

When I mentioned opposition from the church, I meant those who place a fundamental value on "Thou shalt not kill." They interpret it to mean that you should not kill ever, under any circumstances, no matter how seemingly justifiable the cause. Not many take this extreme view, but there are some. They have not hesitated to make their views plain to me!

Of all of my friends in the military (remember, my brother has been in for over 20 years), only one had to ever kill someone and he was in Special Forces in the Marines and was front lines in Iraq. But there are positions you can take where you would most likely never be in a situation to kill someone - especially if you go in already with a college degree.

 

[freeatlast]

Good to know that you're around to judge the men and women who fought in Iraq as murderers.

I understand your position as you are one of ,amy who will defend this country even in the mist of its own evil. I am not one of those. While there is no question Iraq had a dictator who was evil, unless you believe we are the world police what we did was the murder of thousands of people who were defending themselves from an invader. What we did in Iraq was murder. Iraq was not a threat to us even in the slightest way. Iran, North Korea, and China are however and we do not rush into those nations because we know the consequences. In other words we show bravery towards the weak and cower towards the strong.

 

[annsni]

I understand your position as you are one of ,amy who will defend this country even in the mist of its own evil. I am not one of those. While there is no question Iraq had a dictator who was evil, unless you believe we are the world police what we did was the murder of thousands of people who were defending themselves from an invader. What we did in Iraq was murder. Iraq was not a threat to us even in the slightest way. Iran, North Korea, and China are however and we do not rush into those nations because we know the consequences. In other words we show bravery towards the weak and cower towards the strong.

The vast majority of Iraqis will disagree with you on this. My brother was there as were numerous friends. They ALL said that they were thrilled the US was helping them and the general population applauded their presence.

 

[freeatlast]

The vast majority of Iraqis will disagree with you on this. My brother was there as were numerous friends. They ALL said that they were thrilled the US was helping them and the general population applauded their presence.

You need to read what I wrote. I did not say that there was some their who like what we did. I said the country was not a threat to us in any way. If you want to be the world police then fine, but I think it was still murder based on the bible as we are not called to be such and we were not defending our own country although that was the excuse. The truth is they are in greater harms way then when we went in. I saw an interview with some of them and they admitted that under the prior leadership they were limited, but also true they knew the rules and if they obeyed them all was fine. Now they are afraid to walk the streets as they are not safe because of what we did. So yes what we did was murder on a mass scale. The problem is if we will admit it or cover it up and justify it as most liberals do with their own personal sins. You can bet if it was such a great place now to live now because of what we did all those who fled would be returning, but most are not.

 

[Don]

The problem is that we were trying to nation-build with a military that hasn't been taught how to nation-build, doesn't know how to nation-build, and doesn't understand the first rule of nation-building (which is: It ain't *your* nation, so don't build it like yours).

The result is that we've been attempting to build a representative republic in countries that have, for thousands of years, relied on tribal chieftans, and we utterly failed at the basic underlying tenet of a representative republic: national identity. You ask an Afghan what he is, and he'll tell you he's Pashtun, or any of over 30 other tribal sects; when the answer you were looking for was "Afghan."

Same with Iraq. Shiite vice Sunni, vice Kurd, etc.

Remembering that all this is my personal, be-it-ever-so-humble <grin> opinion, I also offer this: the absolute biggest mistake we've made is not building enough schools. Two things you can do with an invaded country: destroy the ability to learn, and keep them subjugated; or educate them, and "let them elevate themselves to your way of thinking."

Just opinions. Take 'em for what they're worth, which ain't much.

 

[Don]

And all that was way off the opening post topic.

Pray hard, and go as God leads you.

 

[Tom Bryant]

I understand your position as you are one of ,amy who will defend this country even in the mist of its own evil. I am not one of those. While there is no question Iraq had a dictator who was evil, unless you believe we are the world police what we did was the murder of thousands of people who were defending themselves from an invader. What we did in Iraq was murder. Iraq was not a threat to us even in the slightest way. Iran, North Korea, and China are however and we do not rush into those nations because we know the consequences. In other words we show bravery towards the weak and cower towards the strong.

I was going to ask you if you also thought they ought to have the death penalty exacted on them since you've already pronounced them guilty of murder. That way you can be judge, jury and executioner! But I won't.

This is way off the OP, so as Jim Rome says, "I'm out!"

 

[freeatlast]

I was going to ask you if you also thought they ought to have the death penalty exacted on them since you've already pronounced them guilty of murder. That way you can be judge, jury and executioner! But I won't.

This is way off the OP, so as Jim Rome says, "I'm out!"

No problem, as long as it is an honest question. No I don't think they should be given the death penalty. Perhaps some of our leaders, but not the military as they were following orders. The main issue is can a believer who seeks to live a godly (holy) life make a career out of the military. The answer is yes, although extremely difficult as very few succeeded, and there may come a time when they have to disobey direct orders to do so, in fact it is more likely then not it would happen.

 

[Salty]

Andy

Murder and killing are not identical.

Murder is the illegal killing of someone.

Therefore all murder is killing, but all killing is not murder.

When I had orders for Vietnam, I told everyone I planned on coming back in one piece without the aid of a body bag, and if I had to kill someone I would do it.

When an enemy solider is firing at me, that is self defense, and I will shoot back. In spite of Frees vast military experience, Iraq was a just war as our Congress authorized it. There were some soldiers who were court martial because they refused to go to the combat zone. Including a Lt Colonel! (please note that the link is not a true news report - as you can tell by the biased way it is written)

However, there Army does train you in "appropriate" times to kill and not to. For example - you can not shoot a POW - unless he is escaping. You can not use a POW to walk in front of your platoon looking for buried mines. You must respect the white flag, and ect.

The problem is many of the enemy does not do likewise.

Now, back to murder - In Matt 19:18, when Jesus repeats the 10 commandments - there are two changes - instead of using the word "kill" he says "murder" - the second change is that he left out "keep the Sabbath"

Another possibility is to join the State Guard (as opposed to the National Guard) in your State - and that will give you a general ideal of what military life is like. And if you decide to go active Federal service - that should not be a problem.

Continue to seek counsel - if possible see if you can locate a military chaplain.

Sarge Salty

 

[freeatlast]

Andy

Murder and killing are not identical.

Murder is the illegal killing of someone.

Therefore all murder is killing, but all killing is not murder.

When I had orders for Vietnam, I told everyone I planned on coming back in one piece without the aid of a body bag, and if I had to kill someone I would do it.

When an enemy solider is firing at me, that is self defense, and I will shoot back. In spite of Frees vast military experience, Iraq was a just war as our Congress authorized it. There were some soldiers who were court martial because they refused to go to the combat zone. Including a Lt Colonel! (please note that the link is not a true news report - as you can tell by the biased way it is written)

However, there Army does train you in "appropriate" times to kill and not to. For example - you can not shoot a POW - unless he is escaping. You can not use a POW to walk in front of your platoon looking for buried mines. You must respect the white flag, and ect.

The problem is many of the enemy does not do likewise.

Now, back to murder - In Matt 19:18, when Jesus repeats the 10 commandments - there are two changes - instead of using the word "kill" he says "murder" - the second change is that he left out "keep the Sabbath"

Another possibility is to join the State Guard (as opposed to the National Guard) in your State - and that will give you a general ideal of what military life is like. And if you decide to go active Federal service - that should not be a problem.

Continue to seek counsel - if possible see if you can locate a military chaplain.

Sarge Salty

Agreed, but no one would be shooting at you unless you were in their back yard. We had no business in Iraq and what took place was murder as they were defending their country from an unjustifiable attack. Nam is a different issue but still not justifiable for what we did.
I say this because of blaming the President. I do agree all this is on his watch and he holds some responsibility, but I am not so sure he kept us from regaining or destroying the plane. My guess is they CIA took a chance and did not cover all their bases. They did not play out every scenario and got stung.
Turning our heads and claiming we are under orders makes us no different then the Germans who murdered millions of Jews and thta is what this is about. Choosing to do what is godly over what is ordered.

 

[Salty]

Free,

The OP is a young man wanting to know about military service. Okay you mad your point about Iraq being a so-called illegal war. Now drop it. If you want to continue in this discussion, please stay on the OP.

If you feel you must continue, do what most folks do - START A NEW THREAD!

But for the time being, you are making an unjust post! :smilewinkgrin:


Andy, I think the best advice is to talk to a military chaplain. (and believe me Free does not cut the mustard on that :tongue3: )

 

[freeatlast]

Free,

The OP is a young man wanting to know about military service. Okay you mad your point about Iraq being a so-called illegal war. Now drop it. If you want to continue in this discussion, please stay on the OP.

If you feel you must continue, do what most folks do - START A NEW THREAD!

But for the time being, you are making an unjust post! :smilewinkgrin:


Andy, I think the best advice is to talk to a military chaplain. (and believe me Free does not cut the mustard on that :tongue3: )

Can't stand the heat I see. You are the one taking it off track. Got a mirror?

 

[HAMel]

We had no business in Iraq and what took place was murder as they were defending their country from an unjustifiable attack.

Typical "ultra liberal" position. Obviously, one who lacked the intestinal fortitude to serve country but has all the answers. Does claiming "murder" at every opportunity somehow justify your position? ...just another armchair General.

Not a very polite position to assume while I'm claiming to be a Christian but if you've never wore a uniform you need to be silent as you haven't paid your dues.

I wonder why so many of the local peasants over there appreciate us?

 

[Don]

I wonder why so many of the local peasants over there appreciate us?

Because of what we represent: The ideal, the hope, to be able to worship, to vote, to work, to better ourselves, according to our own choices.

Doesn't hurt that some of us will drop what we're doing and play soccer with them, either. As soon as they see that, they see the one true thing about human nature (this isn't meant to be biblical or spiritual, only an observation about our fleshly natures): People are basically the same everywhere.

 

[freeatlast]

Because of what we represent: The ideal, the hope, to be able to worship, to vote, to work, to better ourselves, according to our own choices.

Doesn't hurt that some of us will drop what we're doing and play soccer with them, either. As soon as they see that, they see the one true thing about human nature (this isn't meant to be biblical or spiritual, only an observation about our fleshly natures): People are basically the same everywhere.

Great sentiments, but in truth you are offering justification for murder as none of those things you stated was why we went into Iraq.