Military to Prosecute GI's for Sharing Faith?

[go2church]

My minds made up, don't confuse me with the facts!

 

[annsni]

What is disregards is denial that at the moment there are actual considerations being made on this issue. The characterization of those who have written these articles and are two credible and reasonable sources. And that there are reasonable people who have read this story and are waiting to see how it turns out.

Tearing people down who have given this story consideration only shows a bias and unreasonableness.

Breibart is "reasonable"????? You can tell just from his article that he's inflammatory.

 

[annsni]

From the first link:

The Military Religious Freedom Foundation is calling on the Air Force to enforce a regulation that they believe calls for the court martial of any service member caught proselytizing.

Enforce a regulation means that the regulation is already in place.

Religious proselytization is not permitted within the Department of Defense

Again - proselytization is already not permitted. It's not a new rule.

 

[Revmitchell]

Breibart is "reasonable"????? You can tell just from his article that he's inflammatory.

Yea he is but that is not the only source posted and I would say that a portion of your quote is in fact inflammatory.

Now the fact is that just because there has been a policy in place does not mean that no one is currently considering a change to that policy. Can anyone prove that is not currently in consideration?

 

[go2church]

How would you prove they are considering changes to a rule that already exists that would according to your "sources", be changed to the rule that already exists? Uh, what?

Hey sometimes it's okay to admit you have some bad information. Far less embarrassing then the hoops you're attempting to jump through right now

 

[Revmitchell]

President Mikey Weinstein and others from his organization met privately with Pentagon officials on April 23.

Pentagon officials met with Weinstein and his group were to discuss a policy called “Air Force Culture, Air Force Standards,” published on Aug. 7, 2012.

Ron Crews, the executive director of the Chaplain Alliance for Religious Liberty, warns that the Air Force policy would “significantly impact the religious liberties of Air Force personnel.”

“Saying that a service member cannot speak of his faith is like telling a service member he cannot talk about his spouse or children,” Crews said. “I do not think the Air Force wants to ban personnel from protected religious speech, and I certainly hope that it is willing to listen to the numerous individuals and groups who protect military religious liberty without demonizing service members.”

Lt. Gen. (Ret.) Jerry Boykin, an executive vice president with the Family Research Council, told Fox News that he’s deeply concerned by what he call a pattern of attacks on Christianity within the military.

So now tell me which of these did not happen. I suppose General Boykin is anti-American and Anti-Military per Ann's quote.

 

[go2church]

Kinda related but maybe not, these rules apply to service members while on duty for sure, but how much while on their own time, off duty?

 

[Don]

Kinda related but maybe not, these rules apply to service members while on duty for sure, but how much while on their own time, off duty?

Out of uniform, with no perception that they're representing their particular military branch or the government in some kind of "official capacity" -- they're free to worship, evangelize, attend conferences, etc.

At any point, if they use their military status in some way to influence others, they've crossed the line. (finding out someone they're talking to is military and saying "I'm military, too" is *not* an influence; finding out the person they're talking to is a private or a corporal, and saying "I'm a sergeant" *is* influencing, because privates and corporals are conditioned to respond to higher authority. I could never get this across to one of my pastors; he would call me up to pray, and introduce me by rank; and as soon as I had the microphone, I'd remind him there's no rank on the baseball/football field, and especially not in church....)

 

[go2church]

Thank you. Seems like a reasonable rule. Of course reasonable doesn't light up the phone lines and keep the donations flowing now does it!

 

[Revmitchell]

On Wednesday, Breitbart News reported that the Pentagon says it could prosecute military members who promote their religion: “Religious proselytization is not permitted within the Department of Defense...Court martials and non-judicial punishments are decided on a case-by-case basis...” On Thursday, House Majority Whip Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) said that the Department of Defense needed to clarify its policy, and called it a “wrong” targeting “the fundamental principles of democracy.”

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/05/02/McCarthy-Pentagon-christianity

I doubt McCarthy is anti-American or anti- Military

 

[Salty]

I doubt McCarthy wis anti-American or anti- Military

Who said McCarthy was anti-Americian?

 

[Gregory Perry Sr.]

Cutting To The Chase...!

Let's try to get a bit PRECISE here....I've been watching all the "back and forth" here but the BIG questions are as follows:

1)- How does the DoD PRESENTLY define "proselytization" or more precisely "proselytizING"? Is Christian WITNESSING or "soul-winning" a part of their definition?

2)- Do any current rules and regulations apply to any active OR reserve service member (any branch) either IN or OUT of uniform?

3)- Is the DoD and the Obama administration ACTUALLY listening too and considering ACTUALLY implementing the "advise" of this ungodly extremist, Mikey Weinstein and those of his atheist organization?

These questions are personal to me as I have a son and daughter-in-law who are currently in the Army and ANG. I'm beginning to wish they weren't. They both need the Lord and now the darkness is descending even further.

As far as I'm concerned, this is a form of persecution that will ultimately result in the "gutting" of any form of moral direction within our once great military and cause a general weakening of it as people of faith not only get OUT of the military...but also refuse to go in it in the first place. I know from talking to some military friends of mine that there is already a trend in progress by many who are not planning to re-enlist just because of the change in the policies regarding homosexuals in the service. Now this....I guess they don't want any influences in the military that would offend all the happy people...or try to tell them that they aren't really so happy. Very sad!

Bro.Greg:saint:

 

[go2church]

Perhaps Christians shouldn't be in the military?

 

[Salty]

Perhaps Christians shouldn't be in the military?

and why not?


and if we should not go where there is persecution, than missionaries should not go into anti-Christian countries

 

[Revmitchell]

Who said McCarthy was anti-Americian?

Ann posted a quote on this issue from a chaplain she personally knows:

A part of it was "This is a story being blown out of proportion by those with an anti-America and anti-military agenda."


That is what I was referencing. And let me make clear that I do not believe Ann believes that she was just posting a quote from someone who she thought has some credibility on this issue. I do not see that comment reflecting on her.

 

[annsni]

From the U.S. Army Chaplain Corps:

OCCH has verified that this is the OSD statement in response to recent media and public query. Thank you for your concern and prayers:

"The U.S. Department of Defense has never and will never single out a particular religious group for persecution or prosecution. The Department makes reasonable accommodations for all religions and celebrates the religious diversity of our service members.

Service members can share their faith (evangelize), but must not force unwanted, intrusive attempts to convert others of any faith or no faith to one's beliefs (proselytization). If a service member harasses another member on the basis of race, color, sex, religion, national origin, age, or disability, then the commander takes action based on the gravity of the occurrence. Likewise, when religious harassment complaints are reported, commanders take action based on the gravity of the occurrence on a case by case basis.

The Department of Defense places a high value on the rights of members of the Military Services to observe the tenets of their respective religions and respects (and supports by its policy) the rights of others to their own religious beliefs, including the right to hold no beliefs. The Department does not endorse any one religion or religious organization, and provides free access of religion for all members of the military services.

We work to ensure that all service members are free to exercise their Constitutional right to practice their religion -- in a manner that is respectful of other individuals' rights to follow their own belief systems; and in ways that are conducive to good order and discipline; and that do not detract from accomplishing the military mission."

 

[Revmitchell]

So the question is why would they meet, recently, with a militant atheist on this issue, who is calling for more court martials for "evangelizing".

 

[Salty]

So the question is why would they meet, recently, with a militant atheist on this issue, who is calling for more court martials for "evangelizing".

The policy does not forbid evangelizing, but rather unwanted, intrusive attempts to evangelize.

It appears these militants are purposely providing incorrect info to cause strife, fear and panic.

As Mrs Salty and I often say - what have we learned from this lesson?
A) Be sure to have all the facts at hand before coming to a conclusion.

 

[Revmitchell]

The policy does not forbid evangelizing, but rather unwanted, intrusive attempts to evangelize.

It appears these militants are purposely providing incorrect info to cause strife, fear and panic.

As Mrs Salty and I often say - what have we learned from this lesson?
A) Be sure to have all the facts at hand before coming to a conclusion.

It is not that black and white. The military had a meeting with these militants on this issue. If it was not a consideration why would they meet with them?

I believe this story being out in the public about this meeting is a good thing. It has caused the military to make a public clarification on this issue and now they will find it difficult to act in a manner that is over the top because now they will have to be accountable to their statements.

unlike the chaplain that Ann quoted who said that anyone who has questions about this meeting is anti-American and anti-military. Yea..he doesn't have an agenda.

 

[Revmitchell]

Another question to be asked here is where is there ever any over zealous proselytizing going on that this should even be an issue?