millinial questions

//I would much rather give a sermon, that the congregation can understand and go read in the scripture to be true, than give one based upon the writings of men, tables, formulas, several resurrections, going to heaven, then coming back from heaven, then going to heaven.//

I respectfully dissagree with your un-scriptural, in-human, un-Godly Doctrine of Ignorance (it is better not to know; ignorance is bliss, stupid people are more Godly than someone who is literate).

Jas 1:5-8 (Geneva Bible, 1599 Edition):
If any of you lacke wisedome, let him aske of God, which giueth to all men liberally*, and reprocheth no man, and it shalbe giuen him.
6 But let him aske in faith, and wauer not: for hee that wauereth, is like a waue of the sea, tost of the winde, and caried away.
7 Neither let that man thinke that hee shall receiue any thing of the Lord.
8 A double minded man is vnstable in all his waies.

* Note: God is a Liberal
Ed is a Conservative.

 

Well, scripure says that none of Israel, that were cutoff for unbelief, could be saved until the fullness of the Gentiles come. Apostle Paul felt that during his ministery, he might gain some of them, so, being Paul was the one who wrote about the fullness of the Gentiles, he should know when that was. Knowing that none could be saved, until the fulness of the Gentiles came, and Paul felt that he might save some of them, then Paul must of felt that when the middle wall of partition was broken down, and it was no longer Jew or Greek, but they had become as one, then the fullness had come. According to the following scripture.

Rom 11:12Now if the fall of them [be] the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

Rom 11:13For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

Rom 11:14If by any means I may provoke to emulation [them which are] my flesh, and might save some of them.

BBob,

 

No, a conservative would rather have scripture than writings of men.

Lets see Ed; you would rather have writings of men over scripture, and you know the time the Lord is coming back, of which no man knows, according to scripture. I am sure you got it from Daniel. I pray you are not a preacher.

BTW; my socks are still on, how about yours?

BBob,

 

socks aren't a problem with me - I'm an Okie

Rev 3:17 Geneva Bible, 1599 Edition):
For thou saiest, I am rich and increased with goods, and haue neede of nothing, and knowest not howe thou art wretched and miserable, and poore, and blinde, and naked.

naked people don't wear socks ...

I presume those definitions will come Mon or Tues - takes a time to research?

Here is the RCC (Roman Catholic Church) view of the MMK (millennial Messanic kingdom): In 325AD the Church had taken over the Roman Empire. At the end of the Church ruling for 1,000 years, the Lord will come to rule His kingdom;l (called Post-millennialism). As soon as they came up with this they killed about 3,000,000 Pagans -- sorry, the real CHURCH of Messiah Jesus does NOT kill Pagans or Jews.

 

//Lets see Ed; you would rather have writings of men over scripture, and you know the time the Lord is coming back, of which no man knows, according to scripture.//

You misrepresent me so much I will not give your statement any status by showing competent souls what is obviously wrong with it. However, maybe out of respect for the one incompetent soul let me say this:

I did not claim to know NOW when the Lord is coming back. There will be a time, after the Lord comes to get us, however, when I will know when the rapture2 event happened. Knowing then, I can tell you that seven years later the Lord will come back and host the resurrection2 event. When the Antichrist goes into the rebuilt Temple of God 3½ years after the rapture2 event;it will be 3½ days later the two witnesses will be resurrected1 (the two witnesses are also part of the FIRST RESURRECTION, the resurrection of the just); it will be 3½ years later when the Lord will come back and host the resurrection2 event.

The Bible says no man knows PRIOR TO THE physical, future, literal MILLENNIUM when the Millennium will start. But in the Millennium (MMK), people will know when it started. In the time of the Gentiles (now) people do not know the time (but do know lthe conditions) of when the MMK will start and end.

BTW, it is very arrogant (and un-scriptural) to think that a one can inerrant understanding of the Bible while some one else who can discuss what the Bible says doesn't understand it.

My eschatology doesn't come canned from man, but as understood by me with the help of the Holy Spirit.

 

Meanwhile, in the immediately preceding post... :laugh:

 

What about the post of yours did I misquote you??? The statement says the physical/literal Millennial Messanic Kingdom, acoming to an earth near you, just a tad more than 7 years from NOW.

Oh you said it, You may have misspoke, but you did in fact say it would be a tad more that 7 years, when the Lord come again, from NOW.

Also, it is hard for me to believe you even misspoke when you put it so plain.

Now you are saying you will know after it happens, now thats an enlightenment.

BBob,

 

Meanwhile, you forgot to notice that I posted it as John Calvin's eschatology, not mine. There is a difference.

BBob,

 

Tell it to the Catholics!

You do not believe you are among the naked do you?? If so, the Lord said to repent.

BBob,

 

BBob,

Perhaps this has to be at the top of the page somewhere for you to answer it(??)

Why do these MK passages not fit at all into what we see today if this is the MK??

skypair

 

BBob,

Perhaps this has to be at the top of the page somewhere for you to answer it(??)

Why do these MK passages not fit at all into what we see today if this is the MK??

In light of these verses, are you going to keep preaching untruth?

skypair

 

Brother Skypair: Here are some of the different schemas that I've noticed as being held by large goups of Eschatological Doctrine (probably all have some truth to them???):

-------------------------------

x-mill = x-millennial: the relationship of the Millennial (1,000 year)
Messianic Reign of Christ, and His Second Coming
('pre-' means the Second coming is before the Millenniuml)

x-trib = x-tribulation: the relationship of the tribulation
and the rapture/resurrection ('pre-' means the
rapture/resurrection comes before the Tribulation period)

Pretrib pre-mill outline of time forward:

0. church age continues -- you are here
1. rapture/resurrection
2. Tribulation time
3. Second Advent of Jesus event
4. physical/literal MK=millennial kingdom
5. new heaven & new earth

Post-trib pre-mill outline of time forward:

0. church age continues -- you are here
2. Tribulation time
3. Second Advent of Jesus event
(same 12-hour day as: 1. rapture/resurrection
4. physical/literal MK=millennial kingdom
5. new heaven & new earth

Post-trib a-mill outline of time forward:

0. church age continues -- you are here
(same as 2. Tribulation time)
3. Second Advent of Jesus event
(same 12-hour day as: 1. rapture/resurrection
4. spiritual/literal MK=millennial kingdom, in heaven
5. spiritual new heaven & new earth

Done-did preterist a-mill outline of time forward:

0. church age continues -- you are here
1. rapture/resurrection -- already happened
2. Tribulation time -- you are here
3. Second Advent of Jesus event -- already happened
4. spiritual MK=millennial kingdom -- already happened
5. new heaven & new earth -- you are here

-------------------------------
Some helpful folks who hold the views have helped me with this in the past. It helps people who hold other beliefs know the general drift of what others believe.

 

By contrast, here is the Description of Jesus concerning the time between Pentacost and the Pre-tribulation Rapture2 Event:

Mat 24:414 (Geneva Bible, 1599 Edition):
And Iesus answered, and sayd vnto them, Take heede that no man deceiue you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ, and shall deceiue many.
6 And ye shall heare of warres, and rumours of warres: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to passe, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and realme against realme, and there shalbe famine, and pestilence, and earthquakes in diuers places.
8 All these are but ye beginning of sorowes.
9 Then shall they deliuer you vp to be afflicted, and shall kill you, and ye shall be hated of all nations for my Names sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall arise, and shall deceiue many.
12 And because iniquitie shalbe increased, the loue of many shalbe colde.
13 But he that endureth to the ende, he shalbe saued.
14 And this Gospel of the kingdome shalbe preached through the whole world for a witnes vnto all nations, and then shall the end come.

These are the signs that the Church Age (Time of the Gentiles, Gentile Age, Times of the Gentiles, etc.) continues.

 

//Now you are saying you will know after it happens, now thats an enlightenment.//

Sorry you appear to damn me if I know and damn me if I don't know. Sorry, I probably can't have disucssions with such inane goings on.

//Now you are saying you will know after it happens, now thats an enlightenment.//

Duh! You didn't understand it it when I hinted, and you balk at it when am clear and specific? That is being two-faced.

Ed said: // ... Let's hear it for the physical/literal Millennial Messianic Kingdom -- acoming to an earth near you just a tad more than 7 years from now.// Of course, that should be 'a coming'.

I rephrase for completion expecting my complete answer also to be damned, but at least I'll have the satisfaction that I was complete, if wordy.

According to Scriptural concept of the emminentcy of the Second Coming of Messiah, and the Scriptural concept that the start of the Millennial Messianic Kingdom will follow the completed Second Coming of Messiah, it is obvious: the physical/literal Millennial Messianic Kingdom could be a coming the Earth just a tad more than 7 years from now. (But if the Lord taries it could be a bit more time than that).

 

So, you do believe you know when the second coming of the Lord is. You say it could be a BIT more time than the 7 years from now.

To claim you know when the end will be, goes against everything the Lord taught. It is heretic. (IMO)

BBob,

 

These TEOTWAWKI (The End Of The World As We Know It) prophecies for 2006 have all failed



2006-JAN-25: James Kingsley predicted a major "Earthquake Storm" near Los Angeles, CA. It was to start shortly after midnight of 2006-JAN-25, last for 2 hours, and be centered in Redondo Beach. The individual quakes range in magnitude from 7.1 to 7.9, and will be called "The Big One". 42006-MAY-25: Eric Julien of the Exopolitics Institute predicted that a remnant from a comet would hit the Atlantic ocean and generate massive tsunami almost 200 meters (650 feet) in height. Most heavily affected will be the Atlantic coasts between the equator and the Tropic of Cancer. He predicted that there will be tens of millions of deaths. North America and Europe was to be hit with less devastating tsunamis. Dozens of underwater volcanoes were to erupt, raising the temperature of the ocean to the boiling point. He based these predictions on a series of visions that he has had. 52006-JUN-06: According to an E-mail that we received, the writer believes that "666," the number of the beast mentioned in the biblical book of Revelation, is really a date: 06/06/06 or 2006-JUN-6. He expected the rapture and start of the tribulation on that date. A movie "The Beast" was released on this day. The story involves the discovery that Jesus Christ never existed. "The authors of the Gospels, writing 40 to 90 years after the supposed life of Christ, never intended for their works to be read as biographies." 6 The screen play involves apparently involves a momentous event in 2006-JUN-06 (6-6-06). What the event is is unclear. The staff have been sworn to secrecy. Nothing notable happened.2006-AUG-22: Glenn Beck, anchor for CNN Headline News, predicted on 2006-AUG-09 that AUG-22:

"... is the day that Israel might be wiped off the map, leading to all-out Armageddon. ... [It] could be the day that Agnostics get down on one knee and start to pray, 'Sweet Jesus, are you coming today'? "



​

When AUG-22 arrived without any sign of Armageddon, Beck responded to a critical E-mail from a viewer by saying:

"I wasn't predicting Armageddon today. ... We talked about the predictions of renowned Middle East scholar Bernard Lewis. It is amazing to me to be called a nut job for quoting a scholar who thinks we might expect aggressive behavior from a man who wants to wipe Israel off the map. I know. Sounds crazy! But, hey, who has time to actually listen?" 7



​

Bernard Lewis wrote in the Wall Street Journal on 2006-AUG-08:

"In Islam, as in Judaism and Christianity, there are certain beliefs concerning the cosmic struggle at the end of time--Gog and Magog, anti-Christ, Armageddon, and for Shiite Muslims, the long awaited return of the Hidden Imam, ending in the final victory of the forces of good over evil, however these may be defined. Mr. Ahmadinejad and his followers clearly believe that this time is now, and that the terminal struggle has already begun and is indeed well advanced. It may even have a date, indicated by several references by the Iranian president to giving his final answer to the U.S. about nuclear development by Aug. 22. This was at first reported as 'by the end of August,' but Mr. Ahmadinejad's statement was more precise."

"What is the significance of Aug. 22? This year, Aug. 22 corresponds, in the Islamic calendar, to the 27th day of the month of Rajab of the year 1427. This, by tradition, is the night when many Muslims commemorate the night flight of the prophet Muhammad on the winged horse Buraq, first to 'the farthest mosque,' usually identified with Jerusalem, and then to heaven and back (cf Koran XVII.1). This might well be deemed an appropriate date for the apocalyptic ending of Israel and if necessary of the world. It is far from certain that Mr. Ahmadinejad plans any such cataclysmic events precisely for [2006-]AUG-22. But it would be wise to bear the possibility in mind. 8


​

SEP-08/09: The Lord's Witness and the True Bible Code predicted that a nuclear bomb will hit the UN plaza in Manhattan on the Sabbath, sometime between sundown on SEP-08 and sundown on SEP-09. This is the same group who predicted that the UN would take over the world sometime between 2001-MAR-26 and APR-24 and that a word-wide famine would being during 2001-SEP.SEP-12: The House of Yahweh issued a news release stating that nuclear war was to begin on SEP-12. The war would start around the Euphrates River. Their leader, Yisrayl Hawkins, says that the countdown to the nuclear war began with the signing of the Oslo accords on 1993-SEP-13. He interprets the Book of Daniel as stating that this is a seven year agreement but would take 14 years to be fully carried out. He interprets Revelation as implying that nuclear war would begin a year, a month and a day prior to the end of the Oslo agreement. Hawkings has posted a video clip on YouTube.com that explains his predictions. 9




Eliezer Kamotho, an elder of the House of Yahweh group in Kenya, said that North Korea's nuclear bomb test on 2006-OCT-09 proved that a nuclear war was about to begin.DEC-17: Dr. Jose Luis de Jesus Miranda predicted that Jesus Christ's second coming would happen in Puerto Rico on DEC-17. His website stated, in part:

"Este 17 de diciembre, el mundo será testigo de la segunda venida de Cristo. El Rey de Reyes llega a suelo boricua. Puerto Rico será el escenario donde cientos de personas presenciarán en vivo, mientras millones sintonizarán vía satélite, el evento que marcará el rumbo de la historia."



​

A rough translation is:

"This December 17th the world will be a witness of the second coming of Christ. The king of kings will touch upon the boricuan [Hispanic] land. Puerto Rico will be the stage where hundred’s of people will witness 'live' while millions will watch through satellite TV the event that will put a mark upon history." 10



​

It didn't happen either.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/end_wrld.htm

Ed Edwards: 2008 prediction.

Let's hear it for the physical/literal Millennial Messanic Kingdom -- acoming to an earth near you just a tad more than 7 years from now.

YEA for JESUS!

 

This was addressed to Ed Edwards:

Wrong poster Brother Bob! The poster with the pipe is Pipedude. Here's his picture:

According to what you have posted, the non-existent (since it is not a literal physical kingdom) millenial kingdom started at the cross (incidentally, I have no problem with most of this idea, thus far) but would have logically ended somewhere around 1030 A. D., which happens to be in the 'middle' of the Middle ages, roughly at the end of the period that is known as the Dark Ages. Now I have a few questions.

1. Uh- exactly what historical battle after that is that of Gog and Magog? Since Satan was to be loosed from the allegorical prison (can't be a real one, for that would seriously infringe on this quasi-Preterist/Amillenial/with a taste of Gnosticism and Arianism thrown in, for good measure, eschaology) at this time, to deceive the nations "for a little season", and gather them all together in one place, are you, perchance, referring to that 'Last Great Battle' of Hastings in 1066? Or maybe the battle in Spain, a few years later when the Muslim Moors were routed, and sent packing back to Northern Africa, from whence they came? And these are supposed to be battles where the army was so great that "no man could number" them? C'mon. (How long of a "little season" do you need for your theology to work? 970 years, and counting? That's half of the entire "church age", already, and we are not there yet, for "a little season"? And I'm one of the ones who is supposedly stretching stuff, to arrive at my beliefs? Get real. The language of Scripture does not support this that you are suggesting, at all.) The accidental encounter of the Union and Confederate Armies right here in KY, during the Civil War, between the armies of Bragg and Buell, resulted in the Battle of Perryville, which had nearly as many casualties as Hastings, and the Battle of Gettysburg had the result of more missing and/or captured, than did the Battle of Hastings with easily five times the number of total casualties recorded. And these were counts, not guesses.

2. What are we to do with all the specific prophecies that relate to a glorious "literal Kingdom" and reign on earth in the OT? (skypair has posted a couple of lists of verses, on this, BTW.) The test of a 'Biblical' prophet was whether what he prophesied came true, in which case he was 'declared to be a 'true' prophet, or, if the prophecy did not, in which case, he was declared to be a 'false' or 'lying' prophet, and he was summarily judged and cast out, up to being actually put to death (Deut. 13:1-5; Mt. 7:15-23; 24:10-13, 24; II Pet. 2:1-3; I Jo, 4:1-3, et al.) , not whether or not it could somehow be "spiritualized" or "allegoricalized" into some other understanding. The Bible does not recognize anything like a Joseph Smith, a Jean Dixon, or a Charles Russell as a prophet.

3. Since the beast and false prophet were to be taken by Jesus, and personally, under His supervision, be cast alive into the lake of fire prior to the 1000 years (which, according to you, started at the cross) (Rev. 19:20-21; 20) - uh- who exactly were these two individuals?

4. Since Satan was to be bound, cast into prison and sealed up for this 1000 year period (Rev. 20:2-3), uh- how is it that he was still running around loose, at the same time (I Pet. 5:8)?

5. Uh- where did this New Jerusalem descend to and arrive around 1030 AD, 'cause I wanna' go visit it, since it is already here, prior to getting there, after my physical death?
Oh, wait! Nevermind! That hasn't happend yet, 'cause we got a previously unknown gap of about almost another 1000 years here, since you have declared that "the MK was over" and since I did "just read more closely". again.

I could go on with the questions, but I do have to do some other things, so I will merely say that frankly, I believe your theology is misreading (or misunderstanding) what the Lord actually said in John 5:2-29 in 'forcing' this into some 'single time period'. "Hour" doesn't necessarily mean 60 minutes, in every Scriptural usage, and it does no violence to the text, otherwise, IMO, unlike some attempts to 'spiritualize' events, in such manner as suggesting that 1000 can really mean an undefined time, as I have seen proposed, merely to give standing to this 'non-literal' idea.

And, FTR, Matthew 24 does not speak of "tribulations" as a plural word, but " the tribulation", "great Tribulation", and "after the Tribulation", all in the singular, which is a much different proposition from the "tribulations" spoken of, in other places, that Christians face regularly.

Gotta' run.

Ed

 

I am still waiting for you and the others to give scripture where Jesus will reign ON EARTH, for this thousand years.

I am still waiting for you and others to give scripture where in this thousand year reign, there will be both soul and body.

BBob,

 

What is the difference between an "Ed Edwards 'tad'" of some unknown length, and a "Brother Bob 'little season'" of 970 years and counting?

Inquiring minds, and all that, you do understand, right?? :laugh:

Ed

 

If you don't believe this is going on today, you are mistaken.
8: And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Also, it is your 970 years, not mine. You fail to understand that you can not measure the 1000 years of God's time. You do not have the least idea of what it is.

There has been 1 day = year

There has been 1 day = thousand years

There has been 1000 years is as yesterday.

Satan was loosed when Jesus finished His work, here on earth. We are living in the little season.

It is comical how you all keep moving the goal post. Now Ed knows when the end is coming up to a "tab" anyway, of which he changed from 7 years from NOW or a little more.

It seems to warp your minds when you get in the eschatology of end times. You fall into the trap of so many, who think they can even now predict the end. You will not accept or even mention, that a resurrection has already taken place. There is no way around the saints bodies being raised after Jesus arose from the dead. Live with it, for it is true.

When the animal sacrifices were brought into this discussion, and now the end of time predicted, it has become a hertic discussion. It has no merit anymore, not saying you did it all, but you have added your part for sure. I say to you and all, get yourselves ready now to meet the Lord. For when He comes, it is to receive His church and pass judgement on the world.

If you would only remove the blinders, you could see there is no purpose to what you advocate on the MK. None whatsoever. Jesus has said in that time, He will only separate the sheep from the goats.

Warning! pray always and be ready for the coming of the Lord, so you can go to WHERE, He is.

He has already did the earth thing, He has no reason to do it all over again!!

BBob,

BBob,