Minimum Education

[Mark Osgatharp]

Originally posted by gb93433:
I have never heard one who takes pride in being uneducated ever grow much if any. Pride comes before a fall and a hauhty spirit before stumbling.

I have never known a man who took pride in being uneducated. I have known a very few who felt self-consciously deficient because of their lack of education, though, in reality, they were wiser than many who had much education.

However, I have known many (and known of many more) who were prideful about their education. It is this sort who have ruined the ministry, runied the churches and, ironically, ruined the educational system.

Mark Osgatharp

 

[buckster75]

Originally posted by gb93433:
When someone asked me about what I learned from seminary I gave him an answer he was not expecting. I told as I took Greek I saw more and more the compassion of Jesus. Not only did I learn Greek but I also saw much more clearly the compassion of Jesus. Isn't that what education should be about? [/QB]

{SNIP}

[ January 27, 2006, 08:44 AM: Message edited by: TomVols ]

 

[Mark Osgatharp]

{SNIP}

Mark Osgatharp

[ January 27, 2006, 08:44 AM: Message edited by: TomVols ]

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by buckster75:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by gb93433:
When someone asked me about what I learned from seminary I gave him an answer he was not expecting. I told as I took Greek I saw more and more the compassion of Jesus. Not only did I learn Greek but I also saw much more clearly the compassion of Jesus. Isn't that what education should be about?

{SNIP} [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]What are you looking for?

[ January 27, 2006, 08:45 AM: Message edited by: TomVols ]

 

[rlvaughn]

Originally posted by gb93433:
To the educated poor grammar sticks out like squeaking chalk on a chalkboard. When I hear a man makes mistakes regularly because he is ignorant I reach the point where I cannot trust him and do not want my family and friends to hear things which are not true.

I know what you mean. When I notice posts on the Baptist Board from people who claim to be highly educated and yet cannot spell or write in complete sentences, I can hear the chalk on the chalkboard.

 

[buckster75]

Originally posted by gb93433:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by buckster75:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by gb93433:
When someone asked me about what I learned from seminary I gave him an answer he was not expecting. I told as I took Greek I saw more and more the compassion of Jesus. Not only did I learn Greek but I also saw much more clearly the compassion of Jesus. Isn't that what education should be about?

{SNIP}</font>[/QUOTE]What are you looking for? [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]What you claimed you learned.

[ January 27, 2006, 08:45 AM: Message edited by: TomVols ]

 

[rlvaughn]

Francis Wayland writes much on the subject on education in his Notes on the Principles and Practices of Baptist Churches. I doubt any would view him as anti-education. He evidently favors ministerial education in a formal way, under proper constraints. Yet he contradicts what some seem to be saying today. Here's a snip from pages 35-36.

"It will be said, in answer to my remarks in the last number, that men so illiterate would not be tolerated in any pulpit at the present day. The mass of the people are well taught in our common schools, and they would be repelled from such uncouth ministrations. There is undoubted force in this objection, until we consider all the facts in the case...

Suffer me to illustrate my meaning by relating an anecdote. I happened to be present at a great meeting a short time since, assembled to deliberate on the subject of ministerial education. Among the speakers was a learned brother, who urged the absolute necessity of the most advanced education for every candidate for the ministry, and, as it seemed to some, spoke rather sneeringly of those who entered upon the work of a clergyman without the most extended acquisitions. He enforced his argument by mentioning the fact, that he had lately overheard some boatmen, on a canal-boat, discussing some of the latest theories in geology, and using them as arguments against the authenticity of revelation. He found himself in want of the knowledge which these common men possessed, and felt obliged to burnish up, and enlarge his knowledge of physical science. The argument seemed conclusive, until a plain brother rising, asked the question, 'Where did these boatmen gain this knowledge?' Here was a learned man, deep in Latin, Greek, German, and metaphysics, ignorant of what was known by common boatmen."

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by rlvaughn:
The argument seemed conclusive, until a plain brother rising, asked the question, 'Where did these boatmen gain this knowledge?' Here was a learned man, deep in Latin, Greek, German, and metaphysics, ignorant of what was known by common boatmen."

That is all the more reason why a pastor should do his undergraduate work in something other than Bible. A pastor who reads a lot and listens to people well will continue to learn throughout life.

 

[rlvaughn]

Perhaps if he had been an ignorant and unlearned fisherman...

 

[rlvaughn]

More Wayland:

This, however, is a single instance of a wide-spreading and most lamentable error. We select our music and hire our performers for the sake of pleasing those who spend their evenings at the opera, while the taste of a man whose soul is melted by Mear and Old Hundred, is sneered at. We write our sermons for judges, barristers, doctors of the law, learned authors, and professors of science, just as if we had them for our audience. We build churches for the accommodation of men and women who come to them in splendid equipages, or in the hope that we shall, by these means, attract them to come, while the lowly wayfaring man can not afford to attend upon our ministrations. Some denominations have for centuries done thus, and they may do it, if their gospel is supported by the power of the state. But when Baptists do it, whose whole power is in the people, and whose only friends from the beginning have been the people, it indicates that we know not what manner of spirit we are of. - Page 38

 

[rlvaughn]

And finally,

In the first place, I would ask, What is the way of supplying the church with ministers, which the Lord has appointed? It is probable that He knew the necessities of his church as well as we, and was able to foresee what would be the best manner of supplying them. Do we find in the New Testament any of those requisites enumerated which many persons now deem indispensable? By what right do we establish rules which Christ has not established? - page 39

 

[SeekingTruth]

quote:
Originally posted by gb93433
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by SeekingTruth:
For example, John the Baptist would gb93433 have trusted him? As far as I know, he appears to have been an uneducated man and may have used poor grammar.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

{SNIP}

How many of the NT writers do you know who were uneducated? Anyone who could read during the time of Jesus was well educated. Also, Greek was a second language to most of the NT writers.

Was Paul an elitist? He was very well educated even by today's standards.

--------------------------------------------------
GB You have made my point. No one else has stooped to personal insults. {SNIP} You have answered your own question, although I am sure you didn't realize it.

My answer to the question is an emphatic NO. I am simply a child of God, attem[ting to lead the life He wants me to. He has taught me to not wallow in pride and to not insult one of His children with demeaning remarks.{SNIP}
These things I did not learn at the foot of some PHD {SNIP}

[ January 27, 2006, 08:47 AM: Message edited by: TomVols ]

 

[RayMarshall19]

Originally posted by gb93433:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by buckster75:
I have read nothing to make me think anyone here is taking pride in being uneducated. Those who claiming to have education continue to make this claim. It is actually showing "man's" wisdom for what it is, foolishness to God.

Didn't I read it right when somone labelled the educated as elitist?

With more education comes more responsibility. When one possess knowledge he must be more humble. It is easier to be humble when you know you know little. A wise person knows how little he knows. Even the most brilliant who know God well knows that they know so little. </font>[/QUOTE]I have a master's degree in chemistry.
I have written quite a bit of prize-winning poetry.
I don't have a clue what your last sentence means.

 

[here now]

Originally posted by gb93433:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by buckster75:
The Holy Spirit equips us for meaningful and fruitful service in the church.

The Holy Spirit is no substitute for preparation. </font>[/QUOTE]Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this the same as saying that GOD is no substitute for preparation.

 

[Major B]

As long as the candidate can read SBC quarterlies and Scofield's notes, most churches will think he is a scholar.

 

[Bro. James]

More scripture:

I Cor. 1:17, "For christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words,lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this world? Hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?"

Context continues through the end of Chapter 2.

No interpretations or commentary needed.

Amen,

Bro. James

 

[TomVols]

I have never known a man who took pride in being uneducated.

I know ten times more who did that than take pride in true preparation. Very, very common here in the south.

 

[TomVols]

From the moderator:
Since my last warning went unheeded, this thread is now closed immediately.

Offenders have been edited and snipped. Per Baptist Board rules, disciplinary measures will be forthcoming.

This is not supposed to be a debate forum. When you degenerate into insults and personal attacks, you bring the unChristlike nonsense that is seen in other forums but WILL NOT BE TOLERATED HERE.

Reprise the theme song and roll the credits.....