Ministering by assumption

[stilllearning]

Assuming that the LORD wants you to do something, and doing it.
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On another thread, Spiritual gifts are being compared to talents or natural abilities.

This discussion naturally leads to the question........
“How much of our ministry to others, needs to be Spirit led?”
Thus the subject of ministering by assumption.
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We should NEVER do anything in the Church or our ministries, because we “assume” the Lord wants us to do it, or because someone else(or everybody else), is doing it.

All Christian ministry, needs to be under the direct leadership of God and His Word.
Otherwise it is “laboring in the flesh”.
And as Jesus said...........
John 6:63
“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.”
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The Church(Christendom), has a lot of problems today, and most of them can find their root, in pastors and other ministers, laboring in the flesh.

 

[Winman]

We should NEVER do anything in the Church or our ministries, because we “assume” the Lord wants us to do it, or because someone else(or everybody else), is doing it.

On that other post I gave a link for a test that will help you determine your spiritual gifts. My pastor had given a test like this to our church years ago and it really works.

To know your calling or gift takes faith. God does not come right out and speak to you audibly. But the point of this test is that the Holy Spirit does burden a person's heart in ways. One person may have a great desire to go preach to natives on isolated islands who have never heard of Christ for instance. For some reason this is a very strong desire for this person, while another person may have a strong desire to help with the children in church.

I remember our pastor telling us that all the gifts are good. He said, "I really don't need "Prophets" around here, but I will take all the "Helps" I can get! :tongue3:

 

[stilllearning]

Hello Winman

Although I have never heard God’s “audible” voice(and don’t expect to), He does speak to me almost every day.
(By His still small voice, in my heart.)
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Back in 1985 when He called me to preach, while I was praying, He said “Don, feed my sheep”.

And about a year later, while at a youth camp, He spoke to me again and said, “Don, go forward this Sunday and surrender to be a pastor”.

And a few weeks later, also during a time of prayer, he said, “Don, I have given you the grace to be a pastor”.
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Now to some people this may sound crazy, but it’s not.
(This is waking in the Spirit.)
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I recall(at my first Church), being called on the carpet, by the deacons, for saying these words from behind the pulpit........
“The LORD told me.......”

They said that this made the congregation uncomfortable.
(I asked....”why, don’t you hear from the Lord?”)
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If a person is going to be a pastor or a missionary etc., it is vital that they “receive a call from the LORD”.
If they don’t, than they will be on their own, and most likely will not last.

 

[Ruiz]

This is slightly off topic, but I doubt you can truly determine spiritual gifts by a physical test. Can all spiritual gifts be measured physically?

To me it is paramount to asking someone questions to truly determine if they are saved. The person can answer the questions in the right way but still not be a Christian or they may have a poor understanding of the answers they gave.

I think watching how people bear fruit is probably a better determinant of their Spiritual gifts.

 

[Winman]

I recall(at my first Church), being called on the carpet, by the deacons, for saying these words from behind the pulpit........
“The LORD told me.......”

Well, saying "The Lord told me..." in a Baptist church will almost always raise eyebrows, but you will hear statements everyday like that in a Pentacostal church.

But I agree that the Lord speaks to us. I find the Lord speaks to me when I read the scriptures.

But I have never heard his audible voice.

And you know what? If I did hear a voice from heaven I don't think I would trust it. You know the ol' devil can fool people like this and has. No, I depend on God's written word the scriptures. That is how God has chosen to reveal himself to us in these last times.

 

[stilllearning]

Well, saying "The Lord told me..." in a Baptist church will almost always raise eyebrows, but you will hear statements everyday like that in a Pentacostal church.

But I agree that the Lord speaks to us. I find the Lord speaks to me when I read the scriptures.

But I have never heard his audible voice.

And you know what? If I did hear a voice from heaven I don't think I would trust it. You know the ol' devil can fool people like this and has. No, I depend on God's written word the scriptures. That is how God has chosen to reveal himself to us in these last times.

The Bible agrees...........
2 Peter 1:16-19
V.16 ¶ For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
V.17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
V.18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
V.19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

 

[Winman]

Yes, God's word is his chosen method to speak to us.

John 17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

John 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

God's word is everything. It is our foundation. And notice that Jesus prophesied of the scriptures that would be written by the apostles in verse 20. This is how we know the scriptures written by John, Peter, and Paul are truly the word of God.

So, if a person quotes a scripture and explains how God spoke to them, as long as it does not disagree or contradict that scripture, then a person can say that. But if a man steps outside God's word and says God spoke to him personally as he did the prophets and apostles, then there is a problem and that person could be adding to God's word.

 

[gb93433]

Moses had a heavy tongue and God told him to speak. How does that fit in with spiritual gifts?

 

[thegospelgeek]

Assuming that the LORD wants you to do something, and doing it.
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........“How much of our ministry to others, needs to be Spirit led?”

All of it.

 

[thegospelgeek]

Yes, God's word is his chosen method to speak to us.
............


So, if a person quotes a scripture and explains how God spoke to them, as long as it does not disagree or contradict that scripture, then a person can say that. But if a man steps outside God's word and says God spoke to him personally as he did the prophets and apostles, then there is a problem and that person could be adding to God's word.

I would go a step further and say that person IS adding to God's word if it is outside of scripture.

 

[HankD]

Assuming that the LORD wants you to do something, and doing it.
--------------------------------------------------
On another thread, Spiritual gifts are being compared to talents or natural abilities.

This discussion naturally leads to the question........
“How much of our ministry to others, needs to be Spirit led?”
Thus the subject of ministering by assumption.
--------------------------------------------------
We should NEVER do anything in the Church or our ministries, because we “assume” the Lord wants us to do it, or because someone else(or everybody else), is doing it.

All Christian ministry, needs to be under the direct leadership of God and His Word.
Otherwise it is “laboring in the flesh”.
And as Jesus said...........
John 6:63
“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.”
--------------------------------------------------
The Church(Christendom), has a lot of problems today, and most of them can find their root, in pastors and other ministers, laboring in the flesh.

I don't think God is hiding behind a tree (so to speak) with His will for our lives and we have to second-guess Him to figure it out, not at all.

If there is a need in the church and one has the ability to fill it and you go ahead and fill it - that's probably not an assumptive decision or being presumptious in filling the need. I could be wrong.

"Here am I send/use me" seems a safe attitude.

HankD

 

[HAMel]

Over the years I have seriously considered not belonging to any church. I am currently a member and have been in the same church for the past five years and seriously thinking of moving on.

The problem I have run up against is that always present "clique" of members who's Grandfather laid the corner stone to the sanctuary back in 1954 and while "new-comers" are tolerated..., they are only tolerated so far.

Yes, I'm a bit bitter.

Over my life time we relocated often which allowed us to attend and member with many churches over the past 38 years. In MHO some of the most devious people in the world belong to Baptist Churches.

Places that I felt the Lord's urging to participate always seemed to meet with aggressive opposition so I would finally just throw in the towel. Seems as though most Pastors preach "only" on the need for salvation instead of stomping on some feet like they should. But, if they did, their employment would soon end.

I'll be glad when it's all over.

Satan is certainly alive and well on planet earth and has free reign in most Baptist Congregations.

 

[thegospelgeek]

Over the years I have seriously considered not belonging to any church. I am currently a member and have been in the same church for the past five years and seriously thinking of moving on.

The problem I have run up against is that always present "clique" of members who's Grandfather laid the corner stone to the sanctuary back in 1954 and while "new-comers" are tolerated..., they are only tolerated so far.

Yes, I'm a bit bitter.

Over my life time we relocated often which allowed us to attend and member with many churches over the past 38 years. In MHO some of the most devious people in the world belong to Baptist Churches.

Places that I felt the Lord's urging to participate always seemed to meet with aggressive opposition so I would finally just throw in the towel. Seems as though most Pastors preach "only" on the need for salvation instead of stomping on some feet like they should. But, if they did, their employment would soon end.

I'll be glad when it's all over.

Satan is certainly alive and well on planet earth and has free reign in most Baptist Congregations.

I have been a member of four Baptist churches in the past 27 years and have run into this type of attitude and behavior zero times. I know it is prevelant in some churches, but let's not throw the baby out with the bath water.

 

[HAMel]

I have been a member of four Baptist churches in the past 27...

Over the many years we have attended and been members of at least 15 different Baptist Churches. It's been a trip.

 

[HankD]

It's human nature and it's been that way from the beginning...

Acts 6:1 And in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplied, there arose a murmuring of the Grecians against the Hebrews, because their widows were neglected in the daily ministration.

 

[Mexdeaf]

In MHO some of the most devious people in the world belong to Baptist Churches.

Satan is certainly alive and well on planet earth and has free reign in most Baptist Congregations.

Baptists certainly do NOT have a corner on the market, my friend. There are devious people in ALL churches of ALL stripes.

 

[gb93433]

Baptists certainly do NOT have a corner on the market, my friend. There are devious people in ALL churches of ALL stripes.

They are in the work world but their boss would not tolerate such antagonism. So they find their place to work in the especially smaller churches where they can have a voice to cause trouble.

 

[HAMel]

No, I don't suppose the Baptist have cornered the market on being cruel. What comes to mind is the following Scripture.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. (Galatians 5:22-23)

Often these words of wisdom are discussed/preached in generalities. People sit smugly in the pews thinking of others whom they hold in contempt when it's themselves that ought to be considered.

Yes, it's a mess. I just wonder how many souls seriously seeking the Lord have been run off over the years. Course, if they were sincerely seeing Him..., they found Him.

 

[RAdam]

I'm reading about your bitterness and it saddens me. I see you've had some bad experiences, but that's no excuse for such bitterness. Bitterness comes from the devil and is one of the tools he uses to discourage God's people. I hate to see people get caught up in it. Christians aren't perfect, and I can say as a preacher that they don't always do what I wish they would. Then again, I don't either. We need to be forgiving and forbearing one to another, even if others don't have the same attitude. Peradventure God will grant them repentence through your good works and attitude.

 

[HAMel]

I'm reading about your bitterness and it saddens me. I see you've had some bad experiences, but that's no excuse for such bitterness. Bitterness comes from the devil and is one of the tools he uses to discourage God's people. I hate to see people get caught up in it. Christians aren't perfect, and I can say as a preacher that they don't always do what I wish they would. Then again, I don't either. We need to be forgiving and forbearing one to another, even if others don't have the same attitude. Peradventure God will grant them repentence through your good works and attitude.

No argument here. I am bitter as my wife and I have suffered much over the years. What really makes me so upset is that others can't see..., no..., absolutely refuse to see the harm they cause. I question their salvation.

Our Pastor's Grand Daughter (18 years old) living in another state became pregnant out of wedlock. When Mrs. Biddy found out she called every single member of the church to spread the news. Her husband is the Senior Deacon for crying out loud. Where do these people come from?

To me, a God Believing/Preaching Church should be the one place for believers to congregate as at an oasis if you will, to escape the wilds of the world but all too often it's hard to tell them apart.

Those of you who are Preachers on here..., are you feeding your members with what they need to hear? Jesus did. Our Lord ruffled feathers like no one before Him.