Ministers' Housing Allowance

[Wesley Briggman]

Housing Allowance - Point of View

There might have been a time when tax breaks for ministers and houses of worship were justified.

In my opinion those times are past.

Why should their neighbor subsidize the Ministers' income or the house of worship property tax?

If they can't pay their way like other businessmen, let them find another source of income.

If the business can't afford its property taxes, close the doors.

God has promised to take care of His children. Not the infidels.

 

[Revmitchell]

Me paying less taxes does not mean you paying taxes for me.

 

[Baptist Believer]

There might have been a time when tax breaks for ministers and houses of worship were justified.

Ministers pay taxes like everyone else. The only area where a minister has an option that others do not have is that a minister can opt out of Social Security. I'm okay with that going away.

In my opinion those times are past.

What has happened to change the situation?

Why should their neighbor subsidize the Ministers' income or the house of worship property tax?

If they can't pay their way like other businessmen, let them find another source of income.

A church or religious organization is not a business (or it shouldn't be.

If the business can't afford its property taxes, close the doors

So you oppose the tax-exempt status of all non-profits?

 

[Alcott]

Ministers pay taxes like everyone else.

How is that true if they can take a housing allowance that 'everyone else' can not? And then there is the car allowance, which I remember 20 or more years ago in average size church (about 220 weekly attendance) I was in, the pastor got $10,400 for that. It was obvious he, and inherently many others, just claim all of the maximum, regardless of how many miles they drive doing their business. We also had a youth minister who had a 'salary' that was paid entirely in that housing allowance.

 

[Rob_BW]

Hmm, the government may come out ahead, as these allowances aren't included as income for social security.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Hmm, the government may come out ahead, as these allowances aren't included as income for social security.

Actually, as I understand it, the entire amount of a minister's housing allowance is subject to both Social Security and Medicare taxes, although it is excluded as taxable income. And since ministers are treated as self-employed persons (contractors), they have double the overt Social Security burden of someone who is employed by another person or firm (the employer pays half of the Social Security tax).

 

[Wesley Briggman]

Copied from post #3: "So you oppose the tax-exempt status of all non-profits?" Yes.

 

[atpollard]

How is that true if they can take a housing allowance that 'everyone else' can not? And then there is the car allowance, which I remember 20 or more years ago in average size church (about 220 weekly attendance) I was in, the pastor got $10,400 for that. It was obvious he, and inherently many others, just claim all of the maximum, regardless of how many miles they drive doing their business. We also had a youth minister who had a 'salary' that was paid entirely in that housing allowance.

This isn't just ministers. Most business owners have a 'company car' and many salaries include non-cash benefits that are not taxed for the employee, but are deductions for the employer. An obvious example is a Doctor who earns a Salary of $100,000 plus the employer pays his $300,000 per year insurance premium. [This came up in a discussion on what 'salary' to tithe on.] Other 'benefits' that I am aware of include employer paid mortgages and private school tuition for children.

Where ministers get special treatment is that all ministers are eligible and most ministers probably take advantage of some benefit, while most 'wage slaves' have no real opportunity to negotiate for the company to pay for their car and house from their pre-tax income and reduce their tax burden.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

Me paying less taxes does not mean you paying taxes for me.

All else being equal, yes it does.

 

[atpollard]

So you oppose the tax-exempt status of all non-profits?

Regrettably, so do I.

I live near Clearwater, Florida ... ground zero for the cult of Scientology. When a non-profit owns 50% of a city and gets tax exemptions, basic services suffer. If a Church catches fire, we expect the Fire Department to respond and put out the fire ... but the Church pays no Property Taxes to support the Fire Department, or Police Department or the Park where they are having a Church Picnic.

When it was just a local place of worship, that was a burden communities could support as worth the benefit that churches provided. Today both 'house churches' and so-called 'non-profits' have become tax evasion schemes that are harming communities and should not be rewarded and encouraged. Unfortunately, that means that real churches need to pay taxes, too.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

Copied from post #3: "What has happened to change the situation?"

Mosques! And numerous other non-Biblical religious organizations.

 

[Revmitchell]

All else being equal, yes it does.

No it doesn't

 

[Wesley Briggman]

No it doesn't

You said in post #2: "Me paying less taxes does not mean you paying taxes for me."

Who do you think is making-up the short-fall?

If government operating expenses remain constant and you have tax-exemptions I do not have, resulting in you paying less taxes on the same income, how do you conclude you don't have the advantage?

 

[Rob_BW]

Actually, as I understand it, the entire amount of a minister's housing allowance is subject to both Social Security and Medicare taxes, although it is excluded as taxable income. And since ministers are treated as self-employed persons (contractors), they have double the overt Social Security burden of someone who is employed by another person or firm (the employer pays half of the Social Security tax).

Huh, I wouldn't have expected that. Housing allowances in the .mil are tax free.

 

[Reynolds]

Me paying less taxes does not mean you paying taxes for me.

It does.

 

[Salty]

Huh, I wouldn't have expected that. Housing allowances in the .mil are tax free.

That's right - those in the military do not pay income tax or Social Security Tax on that housing allowance.

 

[Revmitchell]

You said in post #2: "Me paying less taxes does not mean you paying taxes for me."

Who do you think is making-up the short-fall?

If government operating expenses remain constant and you have tax-exemptions I do not have, resulting in you paying less taxes on the same income, how do you conclude you don't have the advantage?

Do you even know the reason for tax exemptions for churches and Pastors?

 

[atpollard]

Do you even know the reason for tax exemptions for churches and Pastors?

Powerful lobbyists from the SBC, RCC and other major denominations?

 

[Salty]

Powerful lobbyists from the SBC, RCC and other major denominations?

Wow, I didnt know that - can you share with us a valid link confirming that!

 

[Revmitchell]

Wow, I didnt know that - can you share with us a valid link confirming that!

good old fashioned sarcasm at its best