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mis-leading ministries
- Thread starter Iconoclast
- Start date
:wavey::::laugh::applause:
Write it down for both of our posterity.
humblethinker
Active Member
:thumbsup: As Dennis Prager says, "Clarity over agreement".
Bob Alkire
New Member
This is the one I've seen at times down here from the Reformed type. There is a church less than 15 miles away that it happened to about 6 years ago. It caused a split, the church is back to 75 percent of what it was and the Reformed split just closed up a few months ago. Much hurt, many members of the same family have a hard time getting over it.
The same style has been used by Pentecostal down here or a near style. But most of the Pentecostal take over attempt that I have seen isn't from the pulpit but from the pew. They keep their Pentecostal views undercover. A Pentecostal pastor comes in and then friends and members from a church he had that closed and they carry out a plan as Jerome noted above but its Pentecostal.
The IFB church I was in the 1980's was infiltrated by some charismatics who tried to influence the church from the pew and during the altar calls. Once it was detected, they were shown the door.
Years later at another church, our pastor had resigned and preached his last sermon on Sunday, and that very next Wednesday we had a Charismatic lady come in to the service and boldly declared that God had told her to come lay hands on the people of the church to impart the Holy Spirit and that God had called her to become the pastor of the church. After a rather lengthy review of certain Bible verses, we showed her the door. But at least she was up front about it.
AW Pink was very blunt and up front about what he believed, as it should be. That's why he couldn't get a pulpit in later years. He was rejected by arminianish churches, dispensational churches, and hyper-calvinists churches. In the age in which he lived, that's about all there was, so, no pulpit for Pink. I'm beginning to think it's the same today.
So I don't know if I can condemn men who use a little stealth to get a pulpit because the fact is whether reformed or not, if a man states all his views up front he's likely to get passed over by the committee, because most preachers hold to something considered controversial unless they are hirelings, milktoasters, or doctrinal chameleons.[edit: after reading this again, it looks like I'm endorsing stealth - I'm not not at all, that was not my intention, I am adamantly opposed to it]
Years later at another church, our pastor had resigned and preached his last sermon on Sunday, and that very next Wednesday we had a Charismatic lady come in to the service and boldly declared that God had told her to come lay hands on the people of the church to impart the Holy Spirit and that God had called her to become the pastor of the church. After a rather lengthy review of certain Bible verses, we showed her the door. But at least she was up front about it.
AW Pink was very blunt and up front about what he believed, as it should be. That's why he couldn't get a pulpit in later years. He was rejected by arminianish churches, dispensational churches, and hyper-calvinists churches. In the age in which he lived, that's about all there was, so, no pulpit for Pink. I'm beginning to think it's the same today.
So I don't know if I can condemn men who use a little stealth to get a pulpit because the fact is whether reformed or not, if a man states all his views up front he's likely to get passed over by the committee, because most preachers hold to something considered controversial unless they are hirelings, milktoasters, or doctrinal chameleons.[edit: after reading this again, it looks like I'm endorsing stealth - I'm not not at all, that was not my intention, I am adamantly opposed to it]
Last edited by a moderator:
I've seen this happen twice, both times the instigator was Calvinist. In the first case, it was the pastor of a church in our town. The church split and his loyal followers started meeting elsewhere in town, where he gave his Calvinism free reign in the smaller setting, and ended up destroying that group as a result.
The second instance is when a man from this now destroyed group started attending our church and trying to shove his Calvinistic beliefs on us. He would try to take over the class while my dh was teaching Sunday School and teach from the pew. He would dominate the class to the point that no one would dare say anything for fear he would NEVER be quiet.
He never joined our church, just kept attending and making relationships with the people there, talking to them one on one about his beliefs. He offered money to our church's children to help send them to camp, and our church had the kids all memorize Bible verses. Instead of going with the leadership on this, he told the kids they had to memorize a certain passage of scripture and explain it to HIM (again, he was not a member, teacher, leader in any way). When one child did this, he used it as an opportunity to undermine our church's beliefs and "teach" the boy his viewpoints from that passage.
His behavior escalated until he was actually arguing with my dh while my husband was preaching or teaching. He would loudly huff and puff, roll his eyes, and even tell my dh he was wrong--all while the rest of us were having worship. Finally one night after church after he had disagreed with my dh, he came to me to tell me where my husband was wrong. I guess since HE couldn't influence my dh, he thought I would. That was the wrong thing to do, and I rebuffed everything he said with scripture until he got mad and left in a huff. The next Sunday he left and things have been much better!
The second instance is when a man from this now destroyed group started attending our church and trying to shove his Calvinistic beliefs on us. He would try to take over the class while my dh was teaching Sunday School and teach from the pew. He would dominate the class to the point that no one would dare say anything for fear he would NEVER be quiet.
He never joined our church, just kept attending and making relationships with the people there, talking to them one on one about his beliefs. He offered money to our church's children to help send them to camp, and our church had the kids all memorize Bible verses. Instead of going with the leadership on this, he told the kids they had to memorize a certain passage of scripture and explain it to HIM (again, he was not a member, teacher, leader in any way). When one child did this, he used it as an opportunity to undermine our church's beliefs and "teach" the boy his viewpoints from that passage.
His behavior escalated until he was actually arguing with my dh while my husband was preaching or teaching. He would loudly huff and puff, roll his eyes, and even tell my dh he was wrong--all while the rest of us were having worship. Finally one night after church after he had disagreed with my dh, he came to me to tell me where my husband was wrong. I guess since HE couldn't influence my dh, he thought I would. That was the wrong thing to do, and I rebuffed everything he said with scripture until he got mad and left in a huff. The next Sunday he left and things have been much better!
Bob Alkire
New Member
Yes.
From the pew, folks joining the church by coming in on their own or by our door to door canvassing. Had same type of deal with Pentecostal.
Hurt!!!
Had a meeting with the entire church the next Sunday after I found this out. Gave them the platform to give their side and why they were doing what they did, gave up to an hour. After that I spoke for a few minutes, we prayed, voted and they lost. They left the church and we did lose a few families as well.
Listen closely when members ask you what do you think of such and such. Give a full answer. So often they are trying to open a door or another view or soteriology. If they want information, that is great, be sure answer is correct, many want to learn. Before I might have put of an in depth answer because of time, but after that, I'll take all the time need to answer their question, I want to know if it a true question or some divide and conquer deal.
When someone keeps pushing someones book who your church and you don't agree with and they keep telling you to eat the meat and throw out the bones. Then you see the people they are teaching at home out of the book and they are teaching it is all meat and no bone. In others to you they are saying their is meat and bones in it but when talking to others their is much if any bone in it. Know your members, spend time with your members, teach them. When you teach your soteriology be fair to other soteriology, then your members will be better able to know what they believe and respectful to others even though they disagree and will say so.
The following list has helped me much.
Listen to members.
Spend time with them.
Pray with them.
Teach them.
Answer their questions.
Teach them that folks who have a different soteriology isn't their enemy.
Some people could be their enemy.
Don't judge a person off the moment.