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Misrepresenting my savior!

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seekingthetruth

New Member
Ok, Calvinists can say they believe this and they believe that, but when they make statements like this one, I draw the line.

Originally Posted by Luke2427
Christ is the author of the doctrines of grace. So yes. OF COURSE Christ was a Trinitarian, an eternal securitist and a Calvinist.

My savior is NOT a Calvinist, and no one has the right to label Him as such.

John
 
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DaChaser1

New Member
seekingthetruth said:
Ok, Calvinists can say they believe this and they believe that, but when they make statements like this one, I draw the line.

Originally Posted by Luke2427
Christ is the author of the doctrines of grace. So yes. OF COURSE Christ was a Trinitarian, an eternal securitist and a Calvinist.

My savior is NOT a Calvinist, and no one has the right to label Him as such.

John
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Would say that Jesus is the Son of God, Messiah neither a Christian nor Calvinist/Arminian !

He is the Lord, no such labels suffice!
 
Jerome

Jerome

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
"This morning I would not only preach the doctrines that come out of the Cross, but the Cross, itself. I suppose that was one of the great differences between the first preaching of all and the preaching after the Reformation. After the Reformation we had clearly ringing out from all pulpits the Doctrine of Justification by Faith and other glorious Truths of God which I hope will be made more and more prominent. But the first fathers of the Church set forth the same Truths in a less theological fashion. If they dwell little upon Justification by Faith they were wonderfully full upon the blood and its cleansing power, the wounds and their healing efficacy, the death of Jesus and our eternal life. We will go back to their style for a while and preach the facts about our Lord Jesus Christ rather than the doctrinal inferences from them. Oh, that the Holy Spirit would so bring the sorrows of our Lord near to each heart, that every one of us may know the fellowship of His sufferings and possess faith in His salvation and reverent love for Him!" —Charles Spurgeon, "Our Lord’s Trial before the Sanhedrin"
 
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mandym

New Member
seekingthetruth said:
Ok, Calvinists can say they believe this and they believe that, but when they make statements like this one, I draw the line.

Originally Posted by Luke2427
Christ is the author of the doctrines of grace. So yes. OF COURSE Christ was a Trinitarian, an eternal securitist and a Calvinist.

My savior is NOT a Calvinist, and no one has the right to label Him as such.

John
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Some people have been so indoctrinated with a systematic view point that they struggle with any attempt to relate to God or people outside of a systematic frame work. Reminds me of the Pixar movie "Ants" where at the beginning a leaf falls in the path of the ants and everyone panics and does not know what to do. If it does not fall within their systematic frame work then they are lost and cannot relate.
 
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Greektim

Greektim

Well-Known Member
seekingthetruth said:
Thank you JF for that response.

I get so upset when people label my Savior.

John
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Wow... this is really what upsets you???

Isn't calling Jesus a calvinist simply an appeal to authority?

And isn't your biggest problem w/ the label is that you abhor calvinism?

If it turns out to be true, you will have been proven incorrect no matter how passionately or vehemently you argued for the opposite view. Peter was passionate when he rebuked Jesus, but that passion didn't make him right.

And why get upset at people who claim their savior believed the same thing as they have determined to be true. For you to get upset at calvinist for saying their savior is a calvinist is nearly to assert that they are not your brethren.
 
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seekingthetruth

New Member
Greektim said:
Wow... this is really what upsets you???

Isn't calling Jesus a calvinist simply an appeal to authority?

And isn't your biggest problem w/ the label is that you abhor calvinism?

If it turns out to be true, you will have been proven incorrect no matter how passionately or vehemently you argued for the opposite view. Peter was passionate when he rebuked Jesus, but that passion didn't make him right.

And why get upset at people who claim their savior believed the same thing as they have determined to be true. For you to get upset at calvinist for saying their savior is a calvinist is nearly to assert that they are not your brethren.
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Yes, it upsets me

John
 
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seekingthetruth

New Member
Greektim said:
Can I not just as easily turn around and say, "I'm upset that you get upset of the claim that Jesus was/is a calvinist. That crosses the line!"

Where does such an argument (if that is what this is) get us?
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It gets us past Calvinists using Jesus to prove they are right....which they are NOT!!!!!
 
P

psalms109:31

Active Member
Exodus 3:14
God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”


As Popeye would say "I am what I am and this is all I can stand"
 
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slave 4 Christ

New Member
"I have my own private opinion that there is no such thing as preaching Christ and Him crucified, unless we preach what nowadays is called Calvinism. It is a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else. I do not believe we can preach the gospel, if we do not preach justification by faith, without works; nor unless we preach the sovereignty of God in His dispensation of grace; nor unless we exalt the electing, unchangeable, eternal, immutable, conquering love of Jehovah; nor do I think we can preach the gospel, unless we base it upon the special and particular redemption of His elect and chosen people which Christ wrought out upon the cross..."

C. H. Spurgeon, http://www.spurgeon.org/calvinis.htm.
 
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seekingthetruth

New Member
slave 4 Christ said:
"I have my own private opinion that there is no such thing as preaching Christ and Him crucified, unless we preach what nowadays is called Calvinism. It is a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else. I do not believe we can preach the gospel, if we do not preach justification by faith, without works; nor unless we preach the sovereignty of God in His dispensation of grace; nor unless we exalt the electing, unchangeable, eternal, immutable, conquering love of Jehovah; nor do I think we can preach the gospel, unless we base it upon the special and particular redemption of His elect and chosen people which Christ wrought out upon the cross..."

C. H. Spurgeon, http://www.spurgeon.org/calvinis.htm.
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Ummmm....Not good preaching

John
 
Jerome

Jerome

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Needed perspective from Founder Ministries head Tom Ascol:

"I would not say Calvinism is the Gospel, without qualification."

Ascol cited a statement by British Baptist preacher Charles Haddon Spurgeon, “Calvinism is the Gospel.” While Spurgeon’s other preaching made clear he did not equate the five points of Calvinism with the Gospel itself, Ascol said, “And though I would have never said it that way either, [in the past] I would have been content to just throw it in the face of people who didn’t agree with Calvinism and let them grapple with it. But now I want to be more gracious about that.”
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http://www.gofbw.com/news.asp?ID=13048&page=2
 
Jerome

Jerome

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
The statement is from very early in Spurgeon's ministry.

If only more Calvinists would follow his advice and stick with "the Gospel, and nothing else".

He expanded on this "and nothing else" idea later in his ministry:

"It is one thing to believe in the Doctrines of Grace, but quite another thing to accept all the encrustations which have formed upon those doctrines and also a very different matter to agree with the spirit which is apparent in some who profess to propagate the pure Truth of God."
 
Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
seekingthetruth said:
Ok, Calvinists can say they believe this and they believe that, but when they make statements like this one, I draw the line.

Originally Posted by Luke2427
Christ is the author of the doctrines of grace. So yes. OF COURSE Christ was a Trinitarian, an eternal securitist and a Calvinist.

My savior is NOT a Calvinist, and no one has the right to label Him as such.

John
Click to expand...

Maybe he did it to evoke discussion (and you bought into it) :laugh:
 
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