Missing Words or Adding Words

[John of Japan]

And now let's get back to the OP. Consider the physical and mental process of copying a manuscript. You look to your left where you have the document. You read a sentence and try to remember it. You turn to the right, where your blank paper (papyrus or whatever) is and write. You have to retain what you saw on the document accurately enough to write the whole thing down. This takes great concentration.

Now consider this. The original has sentences both before and after the one you are copying. You not only have to remember your sentence, but remember where it is in the document. Because of this, tehe acts concerning the original are quite a bit more difficult than the act of writing in the copy. It is therefore quite easy, believe me, to let your mind skip a word, phrase or even a sentence.

On the other hand, adding a word or phrase is usually deliberate: a scribal correction to what he thinks is the right text, for example. On this line, considering the history of the Antiochan (Byzantine) church as compared to the Alexandrian church (with such weirdos as Origen), I believe the bibliology of the church at Antioch to be much superior, resulting in a corresponding reverence for the text. Thus the scribes at Antioch were more careful, producing a more accurate text, the Byzantine. (Just consider all the corrections in the margin of Vaticanus.)

 

[John of Japan]

However a number of passages in the TR have additional wording not found in the oldest documents. The deletions of the ancient text by the TR are far fewer than its additions.

The problem in the OP is not concerning the TR per se, but the Byzantine vs. Alexandrian.

 

[John of Japan]

Huh? His question specified asked about "Greek mss in existence". The answer would have to be-- No. There are places in Erasmus' (in Revelation, Acts 9:5-6) that are still not supported by any Greek manuscript.

Sorry, I can't really debate this in the States. Almost my entire library on textual criticism is in Japan. So I'll just let you have this point and move back to the OP. :applause:

 

[John of Japan]

Huh? His question specified asked about "Greek mss in existence". The answer would have to be-- No. There are places in Erasmus' (in Revelation, Acts 9:5-6) that are still not supported by any Greek manuscript.

You are right. My apologies. A scholar friend informed/reminded me of the facts. Of course, the Byzantine Textform Greek NT eliminates this problem by being completely based on the mss. :type:

 

[franklinmonroe]

... Consider the physical and mental process of copying a manuscript. You look to your left where you have the document. You read a sentence and try to remember it. You turn to the right, where your blank paper (papyrus or whatever) is and write. You have to retain what you saw on the document accurately enough to write the whole thing down. This takes great concentration. ...

Even more so when it is difficult to identify some of the individual letters drawn by the previous scribe; are those his personal thoughts or actually corrections in the margins? Meanwhile, you must also constantly keep sharpening your quill, dipping it in the ink (while avoiding smudges and drips). You will need another candle very soon; additionally, the fire needs another log; you don't have modern eyeglasses to correct your vision either, etc.

 

[John of Japan]

Even more so when it is difficult to identify some of the individual letters drawn by the previous scribe; are those his personal thoughts or actually corrections in the margins? Meanwhile, you must also constantly keep sharpening your quill, dipping it in the ink (while avoiding smudges and drips). You will need another candle very soon; additionally, the fire needs another log; you don't have modern eyeglasses to correct your vision either, etc.

All of this without coffee. Amazing!

 

[Martin Marprelate]

However a number of passages in the TR have additional wording not found in the oldest documents.

That does not mean they they were not in the originals. Byzantine readings are found in Irenaeus and other ECFs well before the time of Vaticanus and Sinaiticus..

The deletions of the ancient text by the TR are far fewer than its additions.

Exactly! Most of the deletions are made by the CT. We are in agreement! :thumbs:

Steve

 

[John of Japan]

That does not mean they they were not in the originals. Byzantine readings are found in Irenaeus and other ECFs well before the time of Vaticanus and Sinaiticus..

Exactly! Most of the deletions are made by the CT. We are in agreement! :thumbs:

Steve

Glad Rippon finally came to see eye to eye with us Byzantine folk. :smilewinkgrin::smilewinkgrin:

 

[Rippon]

Exactly! Most of the deletions are made by the CT. We are in agreement!

That's a funny falsehood. You certainly know we are not in agreement on this issue at all. I had said that "the deletions of the ancient text by the TR are far fewer than its additions."

Here's a classic omission in the TR. It's from 1 John 3:1 :And that is what we are!"

The full text that I will cite here is from the 2011 NIV.

"See what great love the Father has lavished on us,that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him."

When the ERV first came out Charles Spurgeon preached on that formerly missing sentence. And no one in his congregation had the missing words in their KJV text! But the the corrected text is such an encouragement for believers.

 

[Rippon]

Another Omission From The TR

The following information is from Philip W.Comfort's book :New Testament Text And Translation Commentary.

1 Peter 2:2 : you may grow into salvation
var/TR : you may grow

"The variant,which appears in the majority of manuscripts,is clearly a late,scribal deletion. At some point in the history of the text,scribes must have found it difficult to conceive of how one could 'grow into salvation,' because salvation is normally considered as an initial gift accompanying the believer's resurrection.But salvation is just as much a process as sanctification and transformation are,for as Christians are transformed,they are also delivered (saved) from the world and their fallen nature. It is the word of God that gives the believers the nourishment to grow into this kind of salvation." (p.739,740)

 

[Rippon]

Revelation 8:7b

The following is from Philip Comfort's book.

WH NU : include :and a third of the trees was burned up
var/TR : omit

"The omission was very likely accidental...The truncated text was printed in TR and has been perpetuated by KJV and NKJV." (p.831)