But ONLY applicable and benefiting towards His own elect
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Mistaken views held by Mainstream Believers
- Thread starter Van
- Start date
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
That is just a man-made comment. Boettner & Sproul seem to be the source of the false view.
This is adding extra information to the text that isn’t there in that verse. It’s the statement after this that says what you are putting in the first half of the sentence.
“and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.”
It also doesn’t say that God saved him before he was born. It says sanctified which means set apart. It doesn’t mean he was saved before he was born. It means God knew he was the right man for the job before he was born. It means that God chose him to be a prophet, not to be saved.
Actually its Jesus and the Apostles
Propitiation is applied only to those who accept the gift. All who are offered are able to accept. Only the elect accept. All people in the world are offered an opportunity to be the elect because it is for, not the elect only, but for the whole world. Not all will come, but whosoever will may come. Not everyone wants to come.
“Whosoever will may come”
Revelation 22:17
And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
God choses Jeremiah to be one of His prophets, and yet would not also be saving Him ?
And you also here are holding to a form of "limited atonement"
I can hold a form of any part of TULIP if I can make the definitions. As the definitions are usually defined, I do not agree with them.
I believe that the elect are the elect because they are saved.
Usually, Calvinism believes that the elect are saved because they are the elect.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Not what it says
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Are you saying that God does not foreknow everybody?
God knew Jeremiah would follow Him and did not need to make up his mind for him. God chose a man to be a prophet who was fit for the job.
If I were to hire someone and know him to be a good worker before I hire him, that doesn’t mean I made him to be a good worker because I wanted to hire him.
The Calvinist position seems to be a sort of Barbie doll Christianity where God is playing with His characters and has already decided how the story will be for the entire world. In Barbie world, there is no free will. There is no salvation. There are no options. If the God chose individuals to be saved from before creation, then the elect have never been lost and the lost can never be saved. There really is no point of doing anything. And the great commission doesn’t mean much either because the elect aren’t lost.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Surely you must have a clear text for that or you would not claim that Jesus and the Apostles said it.
Other than that it just comes down to yet another unsupported claim from the C/R side.
Matthew 19:28
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Jesus talks about regeneration as being in the future.
Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Paul talks about regeneration as salvation
Calvinists refer to regeneration as being made alive before salvation so that you can be saved.
This teaching comes from 1Corinthians 2 because…
“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.”
But context will tell you that Paul is not referring to salvation. He is instead talking about things we learn after salvation and is scolding the church for being carnally minded and not spiritually minded.
The entire context is that believers are not to think carnally because they won’t understand what God would have them know in their fleshly minds and hearts. None of this passage is about salvation.
Paul is contrasting in that passage the difference between natural/unsaved, and the spiritual/saved persons
No he is not. Read the passage again and keep going into chapter three. At no point in that discussion is salvation a topic.
He is talking about the carnal/saved and the spiritual/saved.
Natural man is one without the Holy Spirit residing within them , those acting and living out of the flesh only, and Paul point to them was that they were acting as IF they were still living only in their flesh still
So the spiritual man with the Holy Spirit acting as the carnal man and unable to discern the spiritual.
1 Cor. 3
And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
paul contrasting to us 3 groups of people here
Natural unsaved
Carnal acting as if not saved babes in Christ
Spiritual matured and saved
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
I agree but that has not stopped the C/R from making the false claim.
Actually I was expecting JesusFan to come back with those verses.
No.
(Mat 7:23 KJV) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.