Mitt Romney, caught on video tape

[Salty]

from the link in Crabs post: So when Governor Romney said that 47% of Americans are irresponsible and simply want handouts, he was tapping into and in fact reinforcing the public's ignorance of the federal tax system as a cash cow that transfers a lot more money from the poor to the rich than the other way around. To frame poor people who require health care as free-riders while giving a free pass to rich people who demand tax cuts (tax expenditures) is a sleight of hand.

How can you say money is transfered from the poor to the rich if the poor are not paying into the system. In fact when the poor do get money from the govt - well remember, the govt got it from the rich to begin with.

Again a TAX CUT is NOT a Tax Expenditure!!!!

 

[LadyEagle]

Moderator Note

3 threads on the same topic have been merged - Please not spam or troll the Board/Forum with threads on the very same topic. Thank you.

Lady Eagle
Moderator :flower:

Carry on.

 

[Crabtownboy]

from the link in Crabs post: So when Governor Romney said that 47% of Americans are irresponsible and simply want handouts, he was tapping into and in fact reinforcing the public's ignorance of the federal tax system as a cash cow that transfers a lot more money from the poor to the rich than the other way around. To frame poor people who require health care as free-riders while giving a free pass to rich people who demand tax cuts (tax expenditures) is a sleight of hand.

How can you say money is transfered from the poor to the rich if the poor are not paying into the system. In fact when the poor do get money from the govt - well remember, the govt got it from the rich to begin with.

Again a TAX CUT is NOT a Tax Expenditure!!!!

The author explains it. Read the article again.

 

[Matt Black]

What astounded me was his comment that there was something wrong with healthcare being viewed as an entitlement in a 21st century First World country.

Words fail...

 

[Salty]

Re-read the article - I agree that SS should not have been touched to use on the general budget.

But I stand firm - a tax credit is not a tax expenditure!
a credit only becomes an expenditure when you get back more than was withheld.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Who are the people who do not pay income taxes, the ones Romney dismisses and calls irresponsible?

Why do they not pay?

Why these people don't pay:

—About half don't earn enough money for a household of their size to owe income tax. For example, a family of four earning less than $26,400 wouldn't pay.

—About 22 percent get tax breaks for senior citizens that offset their income.

—About 15 percent get tax breaks for the working poor or low-income parents.

—Almost 3 percent get tax breaks for college tuition or other education expenses.

Who they are:

—The vast majority have below-average earnings: Among all who don't owe, 9 out of 10 make $50,000 or less.

—But some of the wealthy escape taxes, including about 4,000 households earning more than $1 million a year.

http://www.mercurynews.com/presidentelect/ci_21589710/who-are-mitt-romneys-47-percent-breakdown

 

[Salty]

Who are the people who do not pay income taxes, the ones Romney dismisses and calls irresponsible?

Why do they not pay?

You make it sound like anyone who gets a tax credit, does not pay ANY income tax.

Many of the middle class who gets tax credits still end up with a tax liability.

Just to clarify - Many people still have a tax liability - even if they get a refund. That is the fallacy of the current withholding. We think if we receive a refund we are not paying taxes.
On line 1040 A Always be sure to look at
line 28. This line is your actual tax
line 36 This line is amount withheld
line 43/43 amount due / to be refunded

What is the the truth of who pays federal income taxes:
top 1% pay 22.7%
top 10% pay 50.0%
top 20% pay 65.3%

So how do you figure the rich are not paying their fair share.

Matt, by the way, health care is NOT an entitlement.

I like what Bro Curtis said: Some people do their giving with other people's money.

Are there folks who need help - YES - and it should be the responsibility of the church (and social agys ) to assist.

The problem is that when the govt has give-a-way programs
there normally are no strings attached.

I remember hearing of the example where the Salvation Army was forced (By a lawsuit) to pay an individual who was required to sweep the floor - in spite of the fact he was receiving free lodging. I suspect it is folks like this that Romney was referring to who are considered irresponsible.

 

[OldRegular]

Hmmm. Wonder what all these people getting freebies (and these government handouts don't include SS and Medicare), will do when the money and the freebies run out during obama's second term? Wonder how they'll feel about granny or themselves being denied care because they are old or smoke, are overweight, mentally ill, drink, etc.??? Maybe the government will deny them care because they are "unfit" like they did in Nazi Germany. Perhaps the government will deny them care because they are stupid.


Report just out: During the obama administration 3.5 million people have signed up for Social Security Disability benefits and 1/4 of those are illegitimate claims, not being reviewed properly. Can we say FRAUD? No wonder they will vote for obama!

Don't you know? Barak Hussein Obama's 15 member death panel will make some of these problems go away, far, far away! Barak Hussein Obama likes to keep his hand in, his finger on the trigger, whether it is with the 15 member death panel or the drone strikes!

 

[Crabtownboy]

Mitt said the American people would not elect a person president who paid more than he was legally required to pay. So, he should be proud of all those people, including the millionaires who legally paid nothing. Also he should be proud of all those large corporations that paid no income taxes. After all he said, "Corporations are people."

Remember when Mitt Romney proudly defended his 14 percent income-tax payment saying that the American people wouldn’t choose someone for President who paid a penny more than was required? As if gaming the system to its lowest possible level was a badge of honor and the supreme test of a national leader?

Well, by this calculation, the 1,400 millionaires who bargained down their tax liability to zero last year, not to mention the Seattle ship worker cited by Danny Westneat [“Let’s look at who’s not paying taxes,” NWWednesday, Sept. 19] are more capable than Romney in leading this country.

Heck, we might as well elect Boeing for president, since it paid no taxes last year either. After all, corporations are people, my friend!

Never mind that Romney considers these millionaires and corporations to be “victims” who won’t take responsibility for themselves.

I’m confused, Mitt. Are Boeing and those millionaire pals of yours job creators or moochers?

http://seattletimes.com/html/northwestvoices/2019215358_romneylets21.html

 

[targus]

Romney wasn't just talking about how much taxes some people pay - he was talking about people who hand their fate over to the government in return for a substinance living given to them by the governing class at the expense of the taxpayers.

If feel sorry for someone who thinks that they are "living" when they are merely "existing" on food stamps, a welfare check, social security disability, unemployment checks, reduced school lunch programs, and all the rest.

Fortunately not everyone who depends on these things is in that category...

It is a state of mind.

Many work to free themselves from the shackles of dependency on the government.

The rest just keep voting Democrat to keep themselves captive in their gilded cage.

 

[LadyEagle]

Mitt said the American people would not elect a person president who paid more than he was legally required to pay. So, he should be proud of all those people, including the millionaires who legally paid nothing. Also he should be proud of all those large corporations that paid no income taxes. After all he said, "Corporations are people."

Mitt Romney didn't write the tax code. Thank your rich Senators and Congressmen who write the tax code. (not just Republicans, by the way)

Also, prior to WW2, the spending rate of Hitler was far greater than the growth of the economy. Sounds like the US. Another parallel.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Mitt Romney didn't write the tax code. Thank your rich Senators and Congressmen who write the tax code. (not just Republicans, by the way)

Then he should not condemn those who are poor for not legally paying any taxes.

 

[LadyEagle]

Then he should not condemn those who are poor for not legally paying any taxes.

He didn't condemn them. He said they wouldn't vote for him and he was right. Believe it or not, CTB, there is a certain segment of our population who are perfectly content living in government housing, living on government freebies, including government healthcare, groceries, and free lunches. The fact is, there ARE no free lunches. Somebody has to pay for them.

Frankly, I'm sick of paying for the moochers, working 40 hours a week (at my age) and struggling, barely living above what is now called poverty level. (used to be middle class before Obama got in) That is why I started a thread some time ago saying that if obama wins, then I'm going to join the 47% and let someone else pay for my ride. There may be a lot of people just like me who plan to do the same.

Then what happens when the money runs out? We already have tent cities. What then, CTB? What then? Can we all come and live with you?

 

[Crabtownboy]

He didn't condemn them. He said they wouldn't vote for him and he was right. Believe it or not, CTB, there is a certain segment of our population who are perfectly content living in government housing, living on government freebies, including government healthcare, groceries, and free lunches. The fact is, there ARE no free lunches. Somebody has to pay for them.

Frankly, I'm sick of paying for the moochers, working 40 hours a week (at my age) and struggling, barely living above what is now called poverty level. (used to be middle class before Obama got in) That is why I started a thread some time ago saying that if obama wins, then I'm going to join the 47% and let someone else pay for my ride. There may be a lot of people just like me who plan to do the same.

Then what happens when the money runs out? We already have tent cities. What then, CTB? What then? Can we all come and live with you?

Calling people irresponsible and other words he used seems condemnation to me. And the moochers do not make up 47% of the population. Many in that figure work, just like you, and because of tax laws pay no taxes. Don't blame them for taking advantage or being able to benefit from legal tax laws.

If you quit you job you will not be joining the 47%, but a much smaller percentage of people. I doubt you will do so as your self-respect would not allow you to do so.

Face the fact that Romney has no understanding of what it is like to be poor or middle class. After all he said the middle class is made up of people who make 200,000 to 250,000 a year. Neither of us are middle class by those figures.

He has bought into the belief that the poor and middle class are irresponsible do nothing people and should be taxes more while he, the rich should be taxed less. In other words, your and I deserve less because we have less. He deserves more because he has more.

 

[LadyEagle]

Oh, and BTW, how many millions are living on food stamps under obama? What's the figure now? Roughly 47 million Americans? Let's talk about the way these EBT cards are misused, the fraud! Some sell their EBT cards for cash so they can buy street drugs. There are federal guidelines in place where people aren't supposed to buy cigarettes, beer, etc., but that is abused by some of the largest retailers in the country - eyewitnesses have told me.

I don't begrudge giving a hand out to people who really deserve the help (temporarily) to give them a hand up or those who are so disabled they can't work. I don't actually begrudge giving food stamps to people who lost their job in this failed obama economy, because they DID pay taxes when they WERE working! And I don't believe Mitt Romney was referring to them in the 47% video. (That video, it turns out, was edited, BTW, reported just yesterday. Turns out several minutes are mysteriously "missing.")

But there is so much fraud and abuse going on in the system, there isn't enough manpower to investigate either EBT abuse or SS disability abuse, let alone other abuses in the current system.

 

[LadyEagle]

If you quit you job you will not be joining the 47%, but a much smaller percentage of people. I doubt you will do so as your self-respect would not allow you to do so.

Touche'. :laugh:

 

[Crabtownboy]

Oh, and BTW, how many millions are living on food stamps under obama? What's the figure now? Roughly 47 million Americans? Let's talk about the way these EBT cards are misused, the fraud! Some sell their EBT cards for cash so they can buy street drugs. There are federal guidelines in place where people aren't supposed to buy cigarettes, beer, etc., but that is abused by some of the largest retailers in the country - eyewitnesses have told me.

I do not mind people using food stamps nearly as much as I mind our misuse of billions of dollars used to buy weapons to kill people. The Department of Defense is well known. There have been many reports of waste within DOD over the years. I believe about 70 billion is spent on food stamps. This includes the administrative costs of the program. I do not know how much actually ends up as stamps in the hands of individuals. The proposed DOD budget for next year is something about 670 billion.

Both are rather mind-blowing to me.

I don't begrudge giving a hand out to people who really deserve the help (temporarily) to give them a hand up or those who are so disabled they can't work. I don't actually begrudge giving food stamps to people who lost their job in this failed obama economy, because they DID pay taxes when they WERE working! And I don't believe Mitt Romney was referring to them in the 47% video. (That video, it turns out, was edited, BTW, reported just yesterday. Turns out several minutes are mysteriously "missing.")

I believe he was very much referring to them in his 47%. After all he said "those people" expected government handouts ... so it is only logical that he was including food stamp recipients in that figure.

But there is so much fraud and abuse going on in the system, there isn't enough manpower to investigate either EBT abuse or SS disability abuse, let alone other abuses in the current system.

I agree, there is much fraud throughout the entire system and rich people are involved in much of it ... just for larger amounts than the poor.

I fear the the ethical beliefs and work ethic that served the US so well for so many years is being lost and, to me, that does not bode well for the future of the country.

 

[LadyEagle]

I agree, there is much fraud throughout the entire system and rich people are involved in much of it ... just for larger amounts than the poor.

I fear the the ethical beliefs and work ethic that served the US so well for so many years is being lost and, to me, that does not bode well for the future of the country.

On that, we agree, CTB. The future of our country does not look bright. PTL we have Jesus no matter what! :thumbs:

 

[targus]

Perhaps if the Obama koolaid drinking media had not edited the tape we would know for sure what Romney was talking about.

 

[InTheLight]

Mitt said the American people would not elect a person president who paid more than he was legally required to pay.

Link, please. I can't find it and I'm pretty good with Google.

So, he should be proud of all those people, including the millionaires who legally paid nothing. Also he should be proud of all those large corporations that paid no income taxes. After all he said, "Corporations are people."

I'm not following the connection between not paying more taxes than necessary and Romney being 'proud' that others pay nothing. Where was that linkage established?

Remember when Mitt Romney proudly defended his 14 percent income-tax payment saying that the American people wouldn’t choose
someone for President who paid a penny more than was required?

No, I don't remember that. Link?

As if gaming the system to its lowest possible level was a badge of honor and the supreme test of a national leader?

This is the classic tactic of innuendo.

Well, by this calculation, the 1,400 millionaires who bargained down their tax liability to zero last year, not to mention the Seattle ship worker cited by Danny Westneat [“Let’s look at who’s not paying taxes,” NWWednesday, Sept. 19] are more capable than Romney in leading this country.

Since it has not been established that paying zero taxes equates to being a capable leader the question begging statement is rejected.

Never mind that Romney considers these millionaires and corporations to be “victims” who won’t take responsibility for themselves.

Romney said people that pay no income taxes AND take government benefits and entitlements are a part of the 47% that are not his constituency. Do millionaires and corporations receive government benefits, i.e. food stamps, Medicaid, free housing, etc.

Here's Romney's quote:

"...who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing..."

Does that sound like millionaires and corporations? NO.

I’m confused, Mitt. Are Boeing and those millionaire pals of yours job creators or moochers?

I'd be confused too if I had to use innuendo, question begging, false conclusions, and misquotes to attempt to make a convoluted point!