MMF - Rock Music Not Conducive to Good Health

[redwhitenblue]

DHK and of course you have no proof except your personal opinion that if you listen to rock your not for Jesus. Also, hearing loss is not chocked up to results of rock music, it's chocked up to loud noises which means anything that is overly loud and that can also be any Christian music no matter what type. Yet another theory blown from the water.

Karen

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by redwhitenblue:
DHK and of course you have no proof except your personal opinion that if you listen to rock your not for Jesus. Also, hearing loss is not chocked up to results of rock music, it's chocked up to loud noises which means anything that is overly loud and that can also be any Christian music no matter what type. Yet another theory blown from the water. Karen

I could have predicted that response, at least from someone. Numerous studies have been done on this subject. It has been in the news a number of times. The rising rate of deafness and/or hard-of-hearing among the aging baby-boomers, who have been raised on rock music has taken its toll, and is beginning to show up in the health care system. Here are some quotes and web-sites for your perusal.

If it is for God, should I not "decrease"?
John 3:30
He must become greater; I must become less.
John the Baptist's statement about Christ
We have decided to interpret this verse as a call to mediocrity.
To become less, we will simply not allow ourselves to get good; we will stay bad.
So the only good must be from God.
Does the good woodcutter want a dull axe?
Do you really think this is true?
Does God want us to be so horrible?
Was this what John was talking about?
He was talking about reputation, not action ? about the importance of Christ's works in relation to his own ? not about the quality of works.
For John certainly wasn't mediocre.
2 Samuel 24:24
I will not sacrifice ... offerings that cost me nothing.
David's refusal to give God the freebies
David insisted on putting something into what he gave God.
Should we not also do this?
Does another's deafness excuse my quality.?
If I know you cannot understand what I am about to say, does that excuse my quality?
No, it does not.
It begs the question 'why am I speaking this way?'
If you cannot understand me, why am I speaking?
I should find a common voice.
There are many radio voices that aren't being heard because of cultural mistakes etc., but they're still on the air
But even still it does not excuse a poor job.
If I am going to use this voice, who gets the glory?
Who am I really doing this for, you or God?
And doesn't God deserve our best?
Then why don't we give it to him?
Should assumptions about deafness drive worship?
Should I lead worship based solely on what I can hear?
Or does this leave some people out?
Should I lead worship based solely on what I think you can hear?
Or does this leave some people out?
Is it ok to leave some people out of the worship experience?
By not talking their language
Or by giving them another message
It may be ok as long as you are reaching others and as long as you don't lock them out for ever.
http://www.csd.uwo.ca/staff/magi/personal/biblestudy/Is_God_Mute/05-emotion.html

Researchers at the University of Florida tested the hearing of some middle and high-school students. The investigators found that about 17 percent of the children had some degree of hearing loss. Most of the hearing loss was in higher pitches, which are usually the first ranges of sound to be lost after hearing damage. The investigators believe that exposure to excessive noise results in a serious hearing impairment at an early age.
Significant hearing losses were detected in a group of students who had a history of frequent attendance to pop music entertainments. Losses due to loud noises in jobs, gunfire, etc. were also identified. (The Lancet 2:203-204, August 2, 1975).
A ?guinea pig' showed hearing impairment in his right ear after listening to high-intensity rock music for 88 hours over a two month span. The left ear, protected by a plug during most of the music,
demonstrated no cytological changes. The damage to the right ear was permanent. (Archives of Otolaryngology 90:29, 1969)
http://www.abelard.org/hear/hear.htm#loud-music

Can Loud Rock Music Affect Your Hearing?
There is a large body of scientific evidence that says that loud music of any kind, not just rock music, may cause both temporary hearing deficiencies and even permanent hearing loss. Of course it's not just rock music, but constant "pounding" music with a loud heavy drum beat, and noise that goes on for extensive periods of time, are common causes of deafness. If a noise or loud music is so loud that you have to shout to make yourself heard (which happens a lot when you use wood or metal working machinery at school or work, or when you go to a music concert), there is a definite chance that the mechanism of the inner ear can be injured.
http://members.aol.com/ScienzFair/loudmus.htm

QUESTION: Can loud rock concerts, loud disc-man music and high bass volume damage your hearing? Where can I find information to support this?
ANSWER: The short answer is YES. Loud rock concerts and loud disc-mans generate enough volume that over time hearing damage can occur. There are a number of rock musicians that have developed hearing losses because of their long-term exposure to loud music. I recommend two books for further related information: "Musicians and the prevention of hearing loss," by Marshall Chasin, published by Singular Publishing Group and "Noise Handbook" also published by Singular Publishing Group. Both books are available through our online bookstore at: http://www.hearingcenteronline.com
Also check out the web site at: http://www.paulryan.freeserve.co.uk
(also in our web-ring). This website tells the story of a rock drummer who lost most of his hearing from loud music. Thank you for your question, looking forward to hearing from you again. Sincerely, Ms. Ears.
http://www.hearingcenteronline.com/askmsearsd.shtml#question2

Can Loud Rock Music Cause Deafness?
Loud music of any kind, not just rock music, can cause temporary and permanent hearing loss. But constant "pounding" music, and noise that goes on for long periods of time, are common causes of deafness. If a noise is so loud that you have to shout to make yourself heard (which happens a lot when you use machinery in wood or metal class at school or when you go to a concert or disco), there is every chance that the mechanism of the inner ear can be injured.
Temporary hearing loss can happen after you've been exposed to loud noise for only 15 minutes. If you have temporary hearing loss, you won't be able to hear as well as you normally can, and you may have tinnitus.
http://www.monklands.co.uk/environment/noise.htm
DHK

 

[redwhitenblue]

ok...so take care of that problem and turn the rock down a notch or so and you won't be deaf...situation cured.

karen

 

[Aaron]

Originally posted by redwhitenblue:
ok...so take care of that problem and turn the rock down a notch or so and you won't be deaf...situation cured.

karen

But then why listen to it? Rock is intended to be felt.

 

[redwhitenblue]

The message is intended to be felt...not just music. As a true musician would know feeling music is not just about feeling a beat but an inner thing of feeling music. It doesn't have to be at high volume to be felt at all.

karen

 

[Ransom]

DHK said:

Can Loud Rock Music Cause Deafness?

Yes, because prolonged exposure to any loud noise can cause deafness. If this is an argument against music, it's also an argument against working in factories, construction sites, mines, and so on where employees are exposed to 80 dB noise or louder for an entire work day.

Solution: Turn it down. Limit your use of portable headphones (which contribute to hearing loss by injecting hi-frequency sound directly into the ears). Take earplugs to concerts.

 

[Ransom]

Aaron said:

Rock is intended to be felt.

You mean I've been using it wrong all these years? Thanks for letting me know. I'll sell my speakers right away and purchase some sort of mechanical device that shakes my floor in time to the music, instead.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by redwhitenblue:
The message is intended to be felt...not just music. As a true musician would know feeling music is not just about feeling a beat but an inner thing of feeling music. It doesn't have to be at high volume to be felt at all.
karen

Your "true" rock musicians have some of the most deafening music ever heard. The young people that go to the rock concerts of today have their ear drums just about blown out. You say the solution is to turn down the music. Please ask your concert rock musicians to turn down their music and see what the answer will be.
DHK

 

[redwhitenblue]

As a matter of fact, I would like to make a simple yet effective point here. Yes some concerts are overly loud but I must say I've sat in some Baptist churches to where the pastor is screaming so loudly that it is damaging to the ears and yet I still hear plenty of amens....do you not believe that can also harm the eardrums? And how is that right over rock?

karen

 

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by redwhitenblue:
As a matter of fact, I would like to make a simple yet effective point here. Yes some concerts are overly loud but I must say I've sat in some Baptist churches to where the pastor is screaming so loudly that it is damaging to the ears and yet I still hear plenty of amens....do you not believe that can also harm the eardrums? And how is that right over rock?

karen

I agree. I've been to Southern Gospel shows where the music was as loud as anyrock band.

I remember seeing Newsong waaaaaaaaaaaayyyyy back in the early eighties when they were still a SG quartet and it was so loud that it just sounded like noise.

Same with Gary McSpadden.

On the other hand, I've been to plenty of mainstream rock shows where the music was either reasonable or, in the case of George Thorogood (of all people!) or Paul McCartney, not loud enough.

I've seen Buffett at least 17 or 18 times now and I can't remember any of his shows being excessively loud.

Boston was loud, but I think that was more due to the in-house sound system they were using.

REO Speedwagon was pretty loud, but the good news was, when Kevin Cronin started talking about Jesus, the folks in the back could hear it.

The "house volume" (what the audience hears) has much more to do with the guy running the boards than the artists, themselves.

Remember, they can't usually even tell how loud it is to the audience because, as George Carlin reminds us, "I can't hear a ******' thing up here because the guy who designed this place built it so that all the sound would go "that way"."

In addition, the artists are positioned behind the house speakers, so, even if they could hear them, they wouldn't hear them from the perspective of the audience.

Ideally, the only thing the artist can hear are the monitors.

Mike

http://www.jimlauderdale.com

[ May 08, 2002, 06:07 PM: Message edited by: Smoke_Eater ]

 

[UTEOTW]

Originally posted by DHK:
1 Cor. 8:13 Wherefore, if meat (CCM) make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh (listen to no CCM) while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.

I think that the interpetation you put on this verse is much too restrictive. It is very clear, reading the verse in context, that Paul is speaking about not doing things that will make someone of a weak conscience to stumble (to greatly simplify things). In Romans 14, Paul seems to address a similar subject. To quote:

Romans 14:2-3 (NKJV)
For one believes that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him.

Verse 14 goes back to similar wording to First Corinthians concerning Paul's believe that nothing is unclean to eat but that some people may disagree. He again proceeds to instruct to not do anything "by which your brother stumbles."

I am certain that you are not weak in conscience concerning CCM and I do not think that if someone else listens to CCM that it will make you stumble and listen to something that personally offends you.

Further, while I agree that you should avoid offending your fellow Christians and you should follow Romans 14:19 and pursue things which bring peace, I feel that your stance that we should do nothing that offends a fellow believer has the power to cripple a body of believers. Under your interpetation, our individual actions and our decisions as a group would be governed by what offends the most conservative and restrictive amoung us. Even if their position is not scriptural.

--------------
For those discussing hearing loss:
Regarding the damaging effects of loud music. When I am controlling what and how I am listening, I can listen at levels which are not damaging. When I do not have control over the volume, I can still protect myself. After four years of engineering school and then going to work in industry, I have saftey, including hearing safety, drilled into me such that it is a way of life at work and at home. After a time of wearing hearing protection at work and while doing things such as cutting grass, I decided that I need hearing protection for other times when excessive noise levels were encountered. I began searching the web and I came across a forum where people responsible for church sound systems where discussing how loud some preachers and music ministers demand the sound to be. Several said that they were required to provide well over 100 decibels. Now that is loud. Hearing damaging loud. They were concerned about the long term effects. One suggestion was to get a set of ear plugs specially made for musicians. They are tuned to provide flat attenuation of the sound across the range of hearing so that the tone is not altered, just the volume. One said he sets the sound initially and then wears the ear plugs for the rest of the service. A little more digging found that they cost about $100, they are custum fitted by an audiologist, and that they are available in anything from a few decibels attenuation upto about 25 decibels. On the web site for a company called Etymotic Research, who makes these ear plugs, I found a one-size-fits-most set of plugs for about $10 that provides about 10 decibels of attenuation. I ordered a set each for me and my wife. We carry them around with us if we think it may get loud. We both love them. Everything sounds perfect but just enough quieter to make it comfortable.

 

[DHK]

UTETOTW,
I appreciate your thoughts. I mentioned in a previous post that there are some who have come out of a rock culture, have taken all their rock cds and tapes, and destroyed them, with the determination to listen only to Godly music. To bring in worldly CCM music would destroy those Christians spiritually. It would bring great offense. Paul in these passages of Scripture teaches that we ought not to offend and be a stumbling block to others.

Concerning hearing problems, the evidence was there for all to examine. Your solution was a good one. The problem is that not many young people are going to heed it. Not many young people even know about such devices, neither do they care. They are reckless and apathetic to the world. As a parallel illustration teen-age pregnancies are on the rise in spite of teaching and warning on immorality. They have the knowledge but they go and do it anyway. They don't care. They want their lifestyle at any cost, no matter what the Word says.

 

[redwhitenblue]

Well first of all the same parallel stands for southern gospel groups and loud mouthed preachers screaming from the pulpit. It's not just teenagers who refuse to heed warnings..the only evidence provided was that loud noise effects our hearing which honestly is pure common sense.

I wouldn't attempt to force any individual offended by ccm to listen to it..and same goes for me, I wouldn't want to be forced to listen to southern gospel when I don't like it.

karen

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by redwhitenblue:
Well first of all the same parallel stands for southern gospel groups and loud mouthed preachers screaming from the pulpit. It's not just teenagers who refuse to heed warnings..the only evidence provided was that loud noise effects our hearing which honestly is pure common sense.
I wouldn't attempt to force any individual offended by ccm to listen to it..and same goes for me, I wouldn't want to be forced to listen to southern gospel when I don't like it.
karen

I agree with what you say Karen. The only kind of music that we have in our church is traditional music. If the microphone is turned up too loud we will turn it down. There is no need for excessive "loudness."
DHK

 

[superdave]

It's interesting to read many of the posts in this whole music forum and really get some insight on why people choose the music they do.

There are standards of appropriateness, and I think tradition can play a part as well, since we use it to govern every other area of our religion (I use that term intentionally), however, musical choice is overwhelmingly made by using the standard of what one "Likes". No matter how many times someone explains to me their "Biblical" reasons for defining their music as God-honoring, and some other category as carnal music, it still comes down to they listen to what they like. Even if they give the old song and dance about how they like Rock music, but they have chosen to rise above their fleshly lusts. (Hey, where is the vomiting graemlin?) I heard a prominent conservative music author and teacher last week, and he had a great lesson on appropriate music, until the application, at which point, he lost all Biblical foundations and launched off into a logical fallicy about how evil the Beatles were. It had no connection to the reality of Christian music, and was filled with hasty generalizations, and a link between a sanctified life and not listening to contemporary music. The funny thing is, if I erased the authors names on a piece of music by this gentleman, and one by Keith Green, or Ray Boltz, you wouldn't be able to tell them apart. He is commonly accepted by conservative Baptist churches, even though musically his work is indistinguishable from CCM.

On hearing loss:
Your ears can get trashed by listening to preaching tapes if you turn up the volume too loud. Actually, when certain evangelists come to my church, I might actually invest in a set of those ear plugs, or maybe even a set that completely block out the sound?

In case you didn't know, Rock music kills plants as well, especially when you don't water them, and make them mosh in a dark room full of strobe lights.

 

[UTEOTW]

DHK,

Let me go in reverse order here.

First, that was kind of my reason for giving the information of the hearing protection that is available. I do not think that many people are aware. And they are good for anytime you may be around something that you want to hear but that is too loud. It does not have to be loud music or loud preachers. You may enjoy a trip to the movie theatre better if you could lower the volume a bit. I also wish people would be more careful with their hearing around any kind of power tool or other loud noises.

Second, I was focusing in on your specific objections to contemporary music and was neglecting the others for whom it could be a problem. Thank you for pointing that out. But this brings up an interesting quandry in my mind. You could not possibly get everyone to agree that CCM is or is not Godly which makes these particular verses even more applicable. I see three situations. One would be the person who has given up not only rock music but who also feels that CCM is not Godly. You could unduly influence that person in a negative manner, as you say. I can also see the person who has given up rock music and CCM. But not because they think CCM itself is bad but because the similarity in the music itself to pop or rock music could bring them back to things they believe is wrong. On these points I agree with you. But my quandry comes for the person who likes the style of music, who has given up on rock, but likes to listen to CCM because you have material where the music is appealing AND the lyrics are Godly (in that person's eyes). For this person, to say no CCM could very easily lead to going back to rock and pop. And I think that this is a serious isue because many young people are likely to fall into this category. You may never get them to listen to traditional music for pleasure but they will listen to CCM. Maybe the answer is that you should be respectful of the people you are around and be careful not to expose them to things that could cause them to stumble even if you personally find it acceptable.

Let me state two things in the interest of disclosure. First, our church is very traditional. The congregation sings from the hymnbook to a piano and an organ. We are not one of those churches that have the full band and stick to contempory songs. Second, I do not listen to music much. I just do not find much that appeals to me. The radio in my car usually stays on news. When I do listen to music, it does fall into the rock category I suppose. I say this because I do not want to misrepresent myself. I am not personally some big fan of CCM but I do think that as long as they try to make God honoring lyrics that I do not care what their music sounds like.

 

[redwhitenblue]

superdave, thank you so much for that post...I needed that laugh so much excellent post!!!

karen

 

[Johnv]

I have a difficult time with the notion that I will have to put away my Beatles anthology since it's not condusive to good health.

This is an arguement that goes back hundreds of years. There were critics who called much of Mozart's music an affront to God. Yet, it's not uncommon for us to hear a Mozart work played by our church organists.

I can understand music that has dark and unholy overtones, but really, to wrap up a whole musical genre with sucn an incendiary knot is, in my opinion, giving Satan more glory than he deserves. Certainly, listening to some blues tunes has probably done more damage to overall health and welfare than rock music, yet I don't think it would be appropriate to make the same blanket statement about the R&B genre.

If you feel that listening to a round of AC/DC's You Shook Me All Night Long is spiritually uplifting, hey, more power to ya!

 

[superdave]

redwhitenblue,
Thanks, I can't seem to make a point without a little sarcasm, but I was really being somewhat serious

 

[Naomi]

I heard someone make a statement that went something like this...." If you are going to listen to Comtemporary Christian Music...you may as well drink a Contemporary Christian Beer!"

I mean, is music the real issue? I am a product of the 70's, and my music style has changed since that era, However; I love all different styles of music ( I could do without heavy metal or rapping )

but there are many styles I love! The music I listen to lifts up the name of Jesus. I love the new worship c.d. Michael W. Smith has out. I know there are some who would not think of listening to such music, but that is their right.
It is the fruit of a christian that we can measure true spirituality. The questions would be:
1. How does the music affect your life?
2. By listening to this music, does it make you feel like praising God, or like commiting a sin?
3. Would you play this music, and feel comfortable in the presence of the Lord?

I am not opposed to CCM. I am opposed to the division that people have caused in the body of Christ about certain styles of music. There are many books written about CCM, and I believe this is so sad. If only people would use the same energy to be a witness to others. People are hurting and lost, and without hope in this world. Where are the Christians? Usually looking for tweezers....you know, to pull the "specks" out of each other's eyes.
Sorry so long, I'll get off my soap box now.
Naomi