MMF - Rock Music Not Conducive to Good Health

[superdave]

Contemporary Christian Beer? I grew up in Wisconsin, and even so, I never heard of that?

But truthfully, There are passages in Scripture warning about drinking, none that warn us to abstain from any specific styles of music

But that is typical of many who have to find some reason why what they don't "like" is evil

 

[SorryDude]

I must say im a huge fan of Christian "rock" and i never feel like im praising God more than when im singing it with a big group of my friends at youth group or whatever. I dont think ive felt that i was really praising God the way he wanted me to when i was singing a "traditional" song. i dont think anyone should be confined with style when paising God, as long as you can feel like your acctualy praising Him and not just readng lyrics out of a book.

God Bless
SorryDude

 

[Matticus]

Way back in this discussion, someone challenged CCM, and asked if any of it is either a "psalm, hymn or spiritual song" I don't know about psalms, but as for hymns, a hymn is a song of praise to God. It does not matter what style it is. Everything CCM puts out can be considered a spiritual song. I agree fully with SorryDude. One more thing: just because rock music started out as Satan's creation does not mean that we can not turn it around and make it God's. By praising God with our rock music, we take Satan's weapon and turn it against him.
Matt

 

[RhondaJoy]

Somewhere along this thread someone was knocking all forms of music to the exclusion of traditional and classical music. I had to drag out my soap box here and step up on it for a brief moment.

Classical music is not without its satanic influence. It may be played on symphonic instruments (as in Biblical times), such as harps (as someone mentioned David played), violins, horns, etc., but the satanic influence is there just the same, without the *gasp* electric guitar.

Take Wagner's piece that many many brides use as their traditional wedding march . . . "The Bridal Chorus." It comes from an opera, written by Wagner, in which the bride walks down the aisle to marry the son of Satan.

My motto is: use common sense when it comes to music. If the music and the performer are honoring God, it can't be anything BUT healthful to those hearing it. God promises that His word will not return void. (Of course volume is another issue entirely, and not limited to just one genre of music.)

And if you don't personally like it, stuff cotton in your ears, smile and say "God bless you" anyway.

And finally, if you watch any secular television (news, Everybody Loves Raymond, I Love Lucy, etc.), or read any secular publications (People Magazine, your local newspaper, etc.) then you can't effectively open your mouth about any secular music.

I'll put my soap box away now. Thanks

[ May 29, 2002, 09:10 AM: Message edited by: RhondaJoy ]

 

[SorryDude]

RhondaJoy your good on that soap box of yours! Dont put it away!

[ May 28, 2002, 11:31 PM: Message edited by: SorryDude ]

 

[Naomi]

Originally posted by SorryDude:
RhondaJoy your good on that soap box of yours! Dont put it away!

Amen sister! Get that soapbox back out!

Your good up there

Naomi

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Matticus:
but as for hymns, a hymn is a song of praise to God. It does not matter what style it is. Everything CCM puts out can be considered a spiritual song.

Eph.5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
Col.3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

Hymn: from Strong's:
umnoV humnos hoom'-nos
apparently from a simpler (obsolete) form of hudeo (to celebrate; probably akin to 103; compare 5667); a "hymn" or religious ode (one of the Psalms):--hymn.
A hymn is properly a song or ode in honour of God.

pneumatikos pneumatikoV pneumatikos pnyoo-mat-ik-os' Spiritual
from 4151; non-carnal, i.e. (humanly) ethereal (as opposed to gross), or (daemoniacally) a spirit (concretely), or (divinely) supernatural, regenerate, religious:--spiritual. Compare 5591

5603. ode wdh ode o-day'
from 103; a chant or "ode" (the general term for any words sung; while 5215 denotes especially a
religious metrical composition, and 5568 still more specially, a Hebrew cantillation):--song.

Spiritual songs. Spiritual odes--wdaiV. Odes or songs relating to spiritual things in contradistinction from those which were sung in places of festivity and revelry. An ode is properly a short poem or song adapted to be set to music, or to be sung; a lyric poem.

"Everything CCM puts out can be considered a spiritual song." That's a mouthful. Almost everything that is CCM is described from a Biblical point of view as carnal, fleshly--not spiritual at all. Both in message and in music CCM fails. Much of it fails to exalt the name of Christ, and is even somewhat blasphemous. Much of it is vague in its message as if it could be describing any god. I am speaking in general terms, not speaking of all of CCM, but of much of it. Remember, you said "EVERYTHING" CCM puts out is spiritual. Most of the music itself is what the Bible describes as being "not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish" (James 3:15).
CCM is cheap imitation of the world's music. The Christian envies the world and says that's what I want too. So instead of honoring God with Godly music and a Godly message, it takes its appeal to the world, copies the world, and tries to blend in with the world as much as possible.

1John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
DHK

 

[ChristianCynic]

Originally posted by DHK:

CCM is cheap imitation of the world's music. The Christian envies the world and says that's what I want too. So instead of honoring God with Godly music and a Godly message, it takes its appeal to the world, copies the world, and tries to blend in with the world as much as possible.

Unless no difference whatsoever can be ascertained from the 'hymns' you espouse compared to the 'psalms and hymns and spiritual songs' referred to in Ephesians and Colossians, then this hymn music "copies the world." And since these hymns were, in fact, composed centuries later than Paul's admonitions, there is no line of connection between the styles, beats, phrasing, et al. Music-- the only kinds we can play-- is worldy.

 

[SorryDude]

Who said that CCM artists love the world? I think that they just love the people in the world and want to show them God. Many teens today love their music and put allot of stock in whats beeing said in it. So CCM artists take that and put in the positive message of Christ in hopes of winning some of them. Like it says in 1 Corinthians 9 :20-23
"To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. To those not having the law I became like one not having the the law (though I myself am not free from Gods law but am under Christs law), so as to win those not having the law. To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some. I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings"

So if CCM artists or any artist that uses the worldly music to preach to the people in the world then all the more power to them!!!

God Bless
SorryDude

 

[RhondaJoy]

Originally posted by ChristianCynic:
Music-- the only kinds we can play-- is worldy.

The definition of "secular" music is: "things pertaining to the material world, or things not sacred."

Thank God that I can go boldly to the throne of God because I'm covered by the blood of Jesus. I am righteous by His blood.

The same holds true to the music I play for Him. When I play my keyboards for His enjoyment, it is not worldy. It is covered by the blood and He takes great enjoyment from my praises.

As long as HE enjoys it, I don't really give a fig what anyone else thinks.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by SorryDude:

So if CCM artists or any artist that uses the worldly music to preach to the people in the world then all the more power to them!!!

Music was never intended as a tool for evangelism. It is not used in the Bible as a tool for evangelism, and is not supported Biblically as a tool for evangelism. Biblically, music is for worshipping the Lord.
DHK

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by RhondaJoy:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ChristianCynic:
Music-- the only kinds we can play-- is worldy.

The definition of "secular" music is: "things pertaining to the material world, or things not sacred."
The same holds true to the music I play for Him. When I play my keyboards for His enjoyment, it is not worldy. It is covered by the blood and He takes great enjoyment from my praises.
As long as HE enjoys it, I don't really give a fig what anyone else thinks.</font>[/QUOTE]Can you give any demonstrable proof that He enjoys your music. You pretty much defined your own music as "things pertaining to the material world, or things not sacred." God does not enjoy those things; they are of the flesh. You put Christian words to carnal music and call it a Christian song. The medium must fit the message. Both are important. The lyrics are just as important as the music itself. For example, if the beat is so loud as to drown out the words what benefit is it?
DHK

 

[RhondaJoy]

Originally posted by DHK:
]Music was never intended as a tool for evangelism. It is not used in the Bible as a tool for evangelism, and is not supported Biblically as a tool for evangelism. Biblically, music is for worshipping the Lord.
DHK[/QB]

Of course in Biblical times, radio hadn't been invented. Neither had airplanes, which have transported people like Billy Graham all over the world to spread the Gospel and evangelize. Neither had television, which has been used as a tool for evangelism. Neither had the printed Bible, which has been distributed all over the world by evanglistic organizations.

Don't you think that if God cared enough about us to give His only son for our salvation, He wouldn't mind if we used music to spread the word and evangelize?

 

[RhondaJoy]

[ May 29, 2002, 05:38 PM: Message edited by: RhondaJoy ]

 

[RhondaJoy]

Originally posted by DHK:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by RhondaJoy:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ChristianCynic:
Music-- the only kinds we can play-- is worldy.

The definition of "secular" music is: "things pertaining to the material world, or things not sacred."
The same holds true to the music I play for Him. When I play my keyboards for His enjoyment, it is not worldy. It is covered by the blood and He takes great enjoyment from my praises.
As long as HE enjoys it, I don't really give a fig what anyone else thinks.</font>[/QUOTE]Can you give any demonstrable proof that He enjoys your music. You pretty much defined your own music as "things pertaining to the material world, or things not sacred." God does not enjoy those things; they are of the flesh. You put Christian words to carnal music and call it a Christian song. The medium must fit the message. Both are important. The lyrics are just as important as the music itself. For example, if the beat is so loud as to drown out the words what benefit is it?
DHK</font>[/QUOTE]You misquoted me and left out the preceding paragraph before "The same holds true for my music."

"The same holds true for my music..." refers to the fact that I am covered by the blood of Jesus. (please scroll back up and read my post properly.)

I said that when I play my keyboard for Him, He enjoys it because *I* am covered by the blood.

When I sing of His holiness and faithfulness and of my adoration for Him, the Word says that He is pleased.

Proof of that is in the story about Mary and her worship of the Lord. While Jesus is at Mary, Martha and Lazarus' home, after dinner Mary comes into the room after trying to think of a way to express her love for Jesus. (An outward display of worship).

She breaks an expensive bottle of perfume and pours it over Jesus' feet. Then she does the unthinkable in the culture of that time -- she unbinds her hair and washes Jesus' feet.

Did people in the room criticize her for being frivolous with the expensive perfume, for breaking cultural etiquette? You bet they did! Judas, probably trying to sound pious and religious, said they could have sold the perfume and helped the needy. Of course he had visions of pocketing some of the money.

But Jesus rebuked the criticism and accepted her worship because it came from a heart of love.

Jesus accepts my worship (in the form of my playing music) equally.

And on a final note (no pun intended), the "beat" can't drown out lyrics. The beat is the rhythmic part of a song. If by "beat" you mean "drums," or "instrumentation," then I agree. If a song has lyrics which are drowned out by instruments, it is not only irritating, but ineffective.

[ May 29, 2002, 05:35 PM: Message edited by: RhondaJoy ]

 

[DHK]

Rhondajoy,
First of all, everything you do is not convered by the blood of Jesus. Sin is not covered, neither those things which are carnal and pertaining to the flesh. You can give no demonstrable proof that God enjoys your genre of music.

All music has beat to it. By CCM one generally is referring to a specific genre of music which is rock music with Christian words. Much of rock music has such a dominating beat that the words cannot be either heard or understood. CCM, at least much of it, copies this worldly music. You call it irritating, and rightly so. Go to the average CCM concert and tell me what you hear. Amplifiers so loud that you require earplugs, and music so deafening that you can't understand the words. It is no different than the world and it is not honoring or glorifying to God.
DHK

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by RhondaJoy:

Of course in Biblical times, radio hadn't been invented. Neither had airplanes, which have transported people like Billy Graham all over the world to spread the Gospel and evangelize. Neither had television, which has been used as a tool for evangelism. Neither had the printed Bible, which has been distributed all over the world by evanglistic organizations.

Don't you think that if God cared enough about us to give His only son for our salvation, He wouldn't mind if we used music to spread the word and evangelize?

As a side note, I don't have much respect for Billy Graham and his gospel of ecumenism.

Needless to say God never chose music as a medium to spread the gospel. Music is in the Bible, but it is never used as a medium of evangelism.

1Cor.1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

1Cor.9:16 For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!

Rom.1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

THE GREAT COMMISSION:
Mat.28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Does it say anywhere in the Bible to go into all nations and sing the gospel??
DHK

 

[Mike McK]

Rhonda,

Music is neither good nor bad in and of itself.

It can only be as good or bad as the artist intends it to be.

Beats are not evil. Volume isn't evil (although excessive volume for long periods of time probably isn't a good thing).

When someone tells you they can't understand the words, then, in my experience, it's usually someone who finds dirty words in "Louie, Louie" and backward messages in "Stairway to Heaven", so don't let somebody's not being able to understand the words stop you if you can understand them.

Music's music and you're smart enough to know whether or not it's bad.

Persponally, I don't listen to CCM, but if you think that's God's using it to minister to you, then more power to you.

By the way, I mentioned this before but if you want to read an outstanding book on CCM and rock music in general from an artist's point of view, check out Dana Key's, "Don't Stop the Music".

It adresses so many of the issues that the anti CCM camp brings up.

Mike

http://www.randystonehill.com

 

[RhondaJoy]

Originally posted by DHK:
Rhondajoy,
First of all, everything you do is not convered by the blood of Jesus. Sin is not covered, neither those things which are carnal and pertaining to the flesh. You can give no demonstrable proof that God enjoys your genre of music.
DHK

DHK,

Obviously you are not reading my posts in their entirety.

Romans 4:7-8 "Blessed are they whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him."

My sin IS covered by the blood, to say otherwise is to say that Christ's death was in vain. It was not.

And I clearly stated that when I play and sing, it is about God's holiness, faithfulness and my adoration for him. I did not say anything about singing anything carnal or sinful.

However, you keep insisting that my music is sinful. So, if you think it is sinful to sing about God's holiness, faithfulness, and my adoration for Him, then we have nothing further to discuss.

Good day

[ May 29, 2002, 09:01 PM: Message edited by: RhondaJoy ]

 

[ChristianCynic]

Originally posted by DHK:
For example, if the beat is so loud as to drown out the words what benefit is it?
DHK

How loud does a beat have to be until God cannot understand the words?