"Modern versions" in a Nutshell

[Nazaroo]

As Rippon and others know well, I am a supporter of the T.R., though not necessarily of the KJV. However, I can't let some of the nonsense being talked here pass without comment. If the modern versions are all tainted with Unitarianism, then perhaps someone will explain the following to me.

Titus 2:13, A.V. Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.’

Titus 2:13, N.I.V. ‘While we wait for the blessed hope- the glorious appearing of our great God and Saviour, Jesus Christ’ (other modern versions are similar).

2Peter 1:1b, A.V. ‘.....To them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.’

2Peter 1:1b, N.I.V. ‘....To those who through the righteousness of our God and Saviour Jesus Christ have obtained a faith as precious as ours’ (other modern versions are similar).

The only modern translation that supports the A.V. in these two texts is the New World Translation of the Jehovah’s Witnesses! Just in case it might be thought that the A.V. is right in these instances, let the reader look at 2Peter 1:11. Here the A.V. rightly translates, ‘....our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.’ Yet the Greek construction here is exactly the same as in 1:1.

One reason for all this is that the KJV translators were unaware of the Granville Sharpe Rule which states that when two words are linked by a single article, they must both refer to the same person. Another reason is, I've been told, that the KJV translators were relying on a Greek Grammar written by a Unitarian. Someone might like to check that out.

Compare also Romans 9:5 in KJV and modern versions. If the modern translators are all atheists and Unitarians, how come they support the (correct) Trinitarian translations in these verses?

Steve

(1) This is a translational issue, not a textual issue.

(2) These two examples are not representative of the dozens of others where modern versions have lowered the standard rather than raising it.

 

[David Lamb]

I am getting more and more confused. I asked:

What is your source, I wonder, for this notion that 19th Century Anglican priests were all "murdering jerks" involved in some sell-out that favoured drug-dealing?
​

And you replied:

The Inquisition.

But Nazaroo, the Inquisition was not carried out by 19th century Anglican priests, was it?

So I need to ask you again: What is your source for your contention that all 19th century Anglican priests were "murdering jerks" involved in a sell-out favoring drug dealing?

 

[Nazaroo]

I am getting more and more confused. I asked:

What is your source, I wonder, for this notion that 19th Century Anglican priests were all "murdering jerks" involved in some sell-out that favoured drug-dealing?
​

And you replied:

But Nazaroo, the Inquisition was not carried out by 19th century Anglican priests, was it?

So I need to ask you again: What is your source for your contention that all 19th century Anglican priests were "murdering jerks" involved in a sell-out favoring drug dealing?

Try to understand the implications and reasoning.

(1) The European 'Church' fell into deep corruption many hundreds of years before the Reformation.

(2) This 'Church' adopted drug dealing as a main industry, namely alcohol manufacture and sales.

(3) The Inquisition is one of many evidences of this same corruption, and the real cost of such a horrific compromise. Violence follows drug dealing like wet follows water.

(4) The Church of England was simply Roman Catholic until at least 1500.

(5) The C of E fluttered and stumbled between 'Catholic' and 'Protestant' for another 300 years, all the while continuing to deal drugs and promote alcoholism.

(6) The Church of England remained essentially "Catholic" until it finally collapsed into total apostacy in the late 1800s, with half the priests defecting to Roman Catholicism, and the other half continuing to deal drugs independently as apostate 'Protestant' agnostics, deists, mystics, anti-supernaturalists, and atheists.

(7) It was at this time and in this state, that the universities Cambridge and Oxford, main suppliers of priests and religious clerics, were completely overrun by homosexual alcoholics and other drug dealers, communists, witches, Romanists, etc.

(8) Although there was a 'temperance' movement, it was clumsy and ineffective in England, worthless in Ireland and Scotland, and only temporarily effective in North America, due to an accidental alignment of interests with money-grubbing capitalist barons.

(9) As a result, the exponentially increasing 'drug combine', mostly run by international merchants and European bankers and freemasons, bloated into a Multi-Billion dollar industry, along with the prostitution/porn trade, and Arms dealing.

(10) This three-fold satanic Trinity of Guns, Drugs, and Prostitution represents most of the world economy.

This historical synopsis explains quite clearly why most Anglican priests are really witches, satanists, drug dealers, child molestors, and homosexual arms dealers who serve the God of War.

God will destroy it all soon.

 

[Dr. Walter]

"I confess I have no repugnance to the primitive doctrine of a ransom paid to Satan though neither am I prepared to give full assent to it. But I can see no other possible form in which the doctrine of a ransom is at all tenable, anything is better than the notion of a ransom paid to the Father." The Life and Letters of Fenton John Anthony Hort, Vol. V, p. 428


"To me the necessity being Divine does not appear sufficient reason for our not being able to apprehend its nature as I do not admit your axiom that man cannot know God as He is. It is of course true, that we can only know God through human forms but then I think the whole Bible echoes the language of Gen 1:27 and so assures us that human forms are Divine forms" - Ibid., p. 427

Both quotes are taken from Hort's letter to Westcott on August 14, 16, 1860. Hort repudiates substitutionary atonement and leans toward some kind of ransom theory but leans more to a ransom theory paid to Satan over being paid to the Father.

In His second quote, he struggles with the true nature of God. He does not believe it is above human comprehension but believes the Divine form is like human form in Genesis 1:27.

 

[David Lamb]

Try to understand the implications and reasoning.

(1) The European 'Church' fell into deep corruption many hundreds of years before the Reformation.

(2) This 'Church' adopted drug dealing as a main industry, namely alcohol manufacture and sales.

(3) The Inquisition is one of many evidences of this same corruption, and the real cost of such a horrific compromise. Violence follows drug dealing like wet follows water.

(4) The Church of England was simply Roman Catholic until at least 1500.

(5) The C of E fluttered and stumbled between 'Catholic' and 'Protestant' for another 300 years, all the while continuing to deal drugs and promote alcoholism.

(6) The Church of England remained essentially "Catholic" until it finally collapsed into total apostacy in the late 1800s, with half the priests defecting to Roman Catholicism, and the other half continuing to deal drugs independently as apostate 'Protestant' agnostics, deists, mystics, anti-supernaturalists, and atheists.

(7) It was at this time and in this state, that the universities Cambridge and Oxford, main suppliers of priests and religious clerics, were completely overrun by homosexual alcoholics and other drug dealers, communists, witches, Romanists, etc.

(8) Although there was a 'temperance' movement, it was clumsy and ineffective in England, worthless in Ireland and Scotland, and only temporarily effective in North America, due to an accidental alignment of interests with money-grubbing capitalist barons.

(9) As a result, the exponentially increasing 'drug combine', mostly run by international merchants and European bankers and freemasons, bloated into a Multi-Billion dollar industry, along with the prostitution/porn trade, and Arms dealing.

(10) This three-fold satanic Trinity of Guns, Drugs, and Prostitution represents most of the world economy.

This historical synopsis explains quite clearly why most Anglican priests are really witches, satanists, drug dealers, child molestors, and homosexual arms dealers who serve the God of War.

God will destroy it all soon.

I think you have misunderstood me. When I asked for your source for your statement that "19th Century Anglican priests were all 'murdering jerks' involved in some sell-out that favoured drug-dealing," I wasn't asking for a line of reasoning; I meant the sort of source Dr Walter gives in his post 64 - something to indicate the correctness of what you are saying.

As it is, you have just given 10 more unsubstantiated statements. I am not saying those ten are all wrong (though in my view, several are), just that you need to provide some sort of evidence. To give just two examples: What evidence are you able to give to show that alcohol manufacture and sales was the "main industry" of the RC "church"? That in the late 1800s the universities Cambridge and Oxford were "completely overrun by homosexual alcoholics and other drug dealers, communists, witches, Romanists, etc."?

And where does your scenario leave godly 19th century Christians like William Wilberforce, J. C. Ryle (first bishop of Liverpool), Charles Simeon, the Sumner brothers, and thousands of others who most certainly were not h*mos*xuals, communists, drug dealers or witches?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

(1) This is a translational issue, not a textual issue.

(2) These two examples are not representative of the dozens of others where modern versions have lowered the standard rather than raising it.

Thank you for your comments. This thread has become altogether too nutty for me, so I shall leave you to it.

Steve

 

[Nazaroo]

I think you have misunderstood me. When I asked for your source for your statement that "19th Century Anglican priests were all 'murdering jerks' involved in some sell-out that favoured drug-dealing," I wasn't asking for a line of reasoning; I meant the sort of source Dr Walter gives in his post 64 - something to indicate the correctness of what you are saying.

Thanks for your explanation of the type of evidence you are seeking.

Since the three-fold Satanic Combine of Guns, Drugs, and Prostitution remain the major industry and trade worldwide, its fair to say that the criminals are still at large.

Since the criminals are still at large, that is more than evidence enough that the judicial systems on earth are incompetant and utterly corrupt.

Since the judicial systems on earth are utterly corrupt, the evidence will not be forthcoming by any natural means available to men.

Since there is a God in heaven who sees all and has judged already, the Babylonian system we are describing has an end, and its coming soon.

If you seek evidence against perpetrators that are still at large, I suggest you pray to God to hand it to you. This is beyond the means of ordinary men.

...To give just two examples: What evidence are you able to give to show that alcohol manufacture and sales was the "main industry" of the RC "church"? That in the late 1800s the universities Cambridge and Oxford were "completely overrun by homosexual alcoholics and other drug dealers, communists, witches, Romanists, etc."?

In a word: the unfortunate results.

And where does your scenario leave godly 19th century Christians like William Wilberforce, J. C. Ryle (first bishop of Liverpool), Charles Simeon, the Sumner brothers, and thousands of others who most certainly were not h*mos*xuals, communists, drug dealers or witches?

My scenario leaves all honest and naive CHristians exactly where they are and were.

It only takes one rotten apple to spoil the whole barrel.
It only takes one or two rotten crooks to spoil a whole organization.
It only takes one or two crooked cops, corrupt judges, phoney politicians, perverted priests, to thoroughly corrupt a whole society, and bring godliness, fairness, justice and mercy crashing to the ground.

As the Holy Scripture says,
It is so corrupt that a righteous man is destroyed.
It is so bad that honesty is penalized, and criminals and evil is rewarded.

This is still Babylon, although the INVISIBLE Kingdom of God has invaded, and continues to take over.

God is invading, and God will certainly destroy everything that is built on sand.

 

[David Lamb]

Thanks for your explanation of the type of evidence you are seeking.

But unfortunately, you still haven't provided it. All you have done is to make yet more statements which you back up only by your own reasoning.

Since the three-fold Satanic Combine of Guns, Drugs, and Prostitution remain the major industry and trade worldwide, its fair to say that the criminals are still at large.

What about some figures to back that up? And who do you mean by "the criminals"? Your previous posts were about 19th century Anglican clergymen, so are you saying that they were all criminals? But no, that wouldn't fit, because you then say that "the criminals are still at large," and no 19th century Anglican clergyman is alive today! So how is this evidence to support your earlier satement that "19th Century Anglican priests were all 'murdering jerks' involved in some sell-out that favoured drug-dealing"?

Since the criminals are still at large, that is more than evidence enough that the judicial systems on earth are incompetant and utterly corrupt.

Of course not all criminals are caught and punished, but what evidence do you have to be able to say that "that is more than evidence enough that the judicial systems on earth are incompetant and utterly corrupt."? Again, how is this evidence to support your earlier satement that "19th Century Anglican priests were all 'murdering jerks' involved in some sell-out that favoured drug-dealing"?

Since the judicial systems on earth are utterly corrupt, the evidence will not be forthcoming by any natural means available to men.

Since there is a God in heaven who sees all and has judged already, the Babylonian system we are describing has an end, and its coming soon.

Yet again, I have to ask, how is this evidence to support your earlier satement that "19th Century Anglican priests were all 'murdering jerks' involved in some sell-out that favoured drug-dealing"?

If you seek evidence against perpetrators that are still at large, I suggest you pray to God to hand it to you. This is beyond the means of ordinary men.

But let me say again that I am not seeking "evidence against perpetrators that are still at large". I am asking you to provide evidence to back up your claim that "19th Century Anglican priests were all 'murdering jerks' involved in some sell-out that favoured drug-dealing".

I then asked you:

What evidence are you able to give to show that alcohol manufacture and sales was the "main industry" of the RC "church"? That in the late 1800s the universities Cambridge and Oxford were "completely overrun by homosexual alcoholics and other drug dealers, communists, witches, Romanists, etc."?
​

You answered:

In a word: the unfortunate results.

What results are there that show that those two universities were "completely overrun" by people such as you describle?

I then asked about godly, evangelical Anglican clergymen from the 19th century. You responded:

My scenario leaves all honest and naive CHristians exactly where they are and were.

Sorry, but your "scenario" didn't even allow for the possibility of there having been any Anglican clergymen in the 19th century who were godly. You said at first that all 19th century Anglicans were alcoholics. Then when Amy challenged you, you apologised, and said that you meant "all Anglican priests". In support of this, you quoted an article about a 21st century Roman Catholic priest in Eire.

It only takes one rotten apple to spoil the whole barrel.
It only takes one or two rotten crooks to spoil a whole organization.
It only takes one or two crooked cops, corrupt judges, phoney politicians, perverted priests, to thoroughly corrupt a whole society, and bring godliness, fairness, justice and mercy crashing to the ground.

As the Holy Scripture says,
It is so corrupt that a righteous man is destroyed.
It is so bad that honesty is penalized, and criminals and evil is rewarded.

This is still Babylon, although the INVISIBLE Kingdom of God has invaded, and continues to take over.

God is invading, and God will certainly destroy everything that is built on sand.

...and I am still left asking the same question, because you have not answered it:

What is your source, I wonder, for the notion that 19th Century Anglican priests were all "murdering jerks" involved in some sell-out that favoured drug-dealing?
​

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Dear Pastor David Lamb,

Have you watched Max Kaiser on Russia Today TV? He is on on Tuesdays and Thursday that I know of. He also can be seen or read on internet.

This bloke is worth watching if ever you needed proof. Well, I think so.

Best of luck with your quest against proof of wickedness in the world as well as in the Church, or rather, best of luck in your campaign for the innocence of the guilty ---- innocence which you are going to find, WHERE?

I think your chances are better to discover the fountain of righteousness and virtue in the hearts of (some) men.

 

[David Lamb]

Dear Pastor David Lamb,

Have you watched Max Kaiser on Russia Today TV? He is on on Tuesdays and Thursday that I know of. He also can be seen or read on internet.

This bloke is worth watching if ever you needed proof. Well, I think so.

Best of luck with your quest against proof of wickedness in the world as well as in the Church, or rather, best of luck in your campaign for the innocence of the guilty ---- innocence which you are going to find, WHERE?

I think your chances are better to discover the fountain of righteousness and virtue in the hearts of (some) men.

It seems I owe you a sincere apology, as apparently something I posted has given you the completely false idea that I am involved in a "campaign for the innocence of the guilty".

In my first post in this thread, post 57, I asked Nazaroo:

What is your source, I wonder, for this notion that 19th Century Anglican priests were all "murdering jerks" involved in some sell-out that favoured drug-dealing?
​

I did not try to suggest that none were, and I certainly did not mean that any who were should be considered innocent.

The same is true for the rest of my posts in this thread. For instance, I challenged Nazaroo's assertion that Oxford and Cambridge univerities were "completely overrun by homos*xual alcoholics and other drug dealers, communists, witches, Romanists, etc." I did not claim that there were no people fitting those descriptions at Oxford or Cambridge.


I hope that makes my meaning clearer, and I apologise again that I didn't write sufficiently clearly before.

 

[Rippon]

But unfortunately, you still haven't provided it. All you have done is to make yet more statements which you back up only by your own reasoning.

These are items that Naz does not want to address.

What about some figures to back that up? And who do you mean by "the criminals"? Your previous posts were about 19th century Anglican clergymen, so are you saying that they were all criminals? But no, that wouldn't fit, because you then say that "the criminals are still at large," and no 19th century Anglican clergyman is alive today! So how is this evidence to support your earlier statement that "19th Century Anglican priests were all 'murdering jerks' involved in some sell-out that favoured drug-dealing"?

Naz is not going to come forward and offer any facts to document his absurd charges. I have asked him time and again but he simply refuses to back anything thing up with anything resembling reality.

...how is this evidence to support your earlier statement that "19th Century Anglican priests were all 'murdering jerks' involved in some sell-out that favoured drug-dealing"?

As Steve was saying, this business Naz is spouting is rather nutty.

What results are there that show that those two universities [Oxford and Cambridge]were "completely overrun" by people such as you describe?

There will be no results forthcoming issuing from the keystrokes of Naz. Documentation of his outrageous charges will go unanswered.

 

[mandym]

Not really.

Yes it was